woodwork tool kits

[Spindle]

Hi

I have to agree with Andy T, I don't see the point?
Ask 10 woodworkers what their ten 'basic' tools are and you'll most likely get ten different answers. Tool selection will depend on the task to be undertaken and personal preferences.
Very few people will wish to commit large amounts of cash to a new hobby straight away therefore the options are to either buy lots of cheap / budget tools or select quality tooling that's immediately relevant - I don't think many experienced woodworkers would recommend the first option.

Could you not offer a 'kit' discount for persons ordering say five or more different tools at one time? You could even refine the offer by giving a list of tool catagories, (plane, chisels, saw etc.), from which the items must be selected in order to qualify for the discount.

Regards Mick

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Personally I'm inclined to think there could be a market for the novice. There is most certainly a market for task based specialisms already...just go to hope turning to see his kits of specialist abrasives for power sanding. You can now pay nearly a £100 for a kit of assorted arbors and Velcro backed sanding discs which are squarely aimed at the serious bowl turner. Now those kits combine both (very) specialised and high quality components and also an element of marketing ie they're discounted for volume purchase (which is how you get your profit margins to be sensible).

I see no reason at all that a generic kit aimed at the total noob wouldn't work. It just wouldn't work for us....because we all want task based tools or quality upgrades of staples (bigger bandsaw etc).

I like the voucher idea to give the new buyer some flexibility...pay £30 and get this pack A,B or C or pay £100 and get packs D, E or F where each pack has different combinations to meet the needs of different categories of job type. That way you overcome the overlap between packs but avoid the noob the agony of a screwfix catalogue where they don't know what they need.

You see that approach in B&Q all the time where they have information plaques everywhere to attempt help for people with the IQ of a walnut to make the right choice of pipe/screw/washer/door handle etc etc ad nauseam.

What have you got to lose by trying except for a little advertising or marketing spend to test a few ideas?

 

[AndyT]

Ask 10 woodworkers what their ten 'basic' tools are and you'll most likely get ten different answers. Tool selection will depend on the task to be undertaken and personal preferences.

Very true!
The question of a beginner's tool kit has come up on here quite often and a lot of us have given detailed, considered answers, which prove Spindle's point.

Few people will have no tools at all, and their skills and aspirations will differ widely. I suggest you make a cup of tea and have a read through these threads for a while:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/newcomer-to-woodwork-questions-on-projects-and-tools-t68266.html (5 pages)

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/newbie-to-site-and-woodwork-t76019.html (2 pages)

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/tool-chest-t6837-15.html (4 pages)

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/buying-a-basic-tool-kit-for-woodworking-t64014.html (2 pages)

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/novice-essential-tools-t5532.html (2 pages)

Those posts were from real people thinking about their own needs - as a would-be supplier, you have to anticipate what your customers' needs might be, which is even harder. You need to work out if they are in it for the fun or because they can't afford the furniture they need.

Whichever way you decide, you can't enjoy woodwork without a few hundred pounds worth of tools. I think it's better value and more fun than sailing or golfing, but I would say that, wouldn't I!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I've thought about this a lot over the years and one of the primary reasons I enjoy woodworking is that at the end of the job you get something that exists in the physical world. Sport, IT, television etc all give you enjoyment during the process of doing them but nothing lasts. With woodwork, the "thing" particularly if made with tlc continues to deliver some of that tlc back everytime you see it. For me, I like that.

Though a tad off topic I confess

 

[Spindle]

Hi

As per Bob with the addition that at the end of each project I've usually got more tools too :wink: :wink:

Regards Mick

 

[nev]

Why not go the whole hog? If the primary audience is newbies, is there a common 'first project'?
You could then include a plan, a timber list and all the required tools.
Then, when flushed with success and praise by those around them after completion, they may well venture onto upgrade #1, 2, 3 etc
edit: :idea: for example ... a toy box or a toolbox

 

[Scottlefley]

Why not go the whole hog? If the primary audience is newbies, is there a common 'first project'?
You could then include a plan, a timber list and all the required tools.
Then, when flushed with success and praise by those around them after completion, they may well venture onto upgrade #1, 2, 3 etc
edit: :idea: for example ... a toy box or a toolbox

I think that is a great idea...imagine having the plans and step by step instructions to make a pile of timber into a useful item...include the tools too and maybe some instruction on how to use them and then you have got a great package...with the added value of some instruction...you could even include a youtube tutorial on how to construct said item.

It would be like when my wife started x-stitching, she bought a kit with all the correct threads, needles, material and frame and then there were simple instructions to create the picture...she bought loads off these kits...til she got bored of it! It's quite usual way to get people introduced to new crafts etc...woodwork should be no different.

 

[carlb40]

I think kits like these normally sell to apprentices etc, however the pay the apprentices get is way below minimum wage so buying a kit as a whole will be beyond them. An apprentice i was working with last year, both myself and the other chippie were helping him choose one tool to buy as and when he could afford it. He often saw what we used and would want to buy something he might not use. So we kept it to the basics, to save him money and stop him wasting it.

So all in all if someone said to me i have seen this kit and should i buy it? I would say no, buy one or two items at a time of a better quality and they will last longer. Assuming they don't get knicked.

 

[shed9]

You have to bare in mind that your target audience are not the people responding to the thread .............blah..blah..blah................You are never going to please everyone here, everyone is going to have their own view on what should be included or left out but that's generally based on working habits and work flow specific to our own interests. When starting out, most people can't identify that at that stage.

I realize this but the people on this thread I trust to come up with a generalized opinion of whats really needed to start making stuff and whats not.
Really appreciate the comments guys, thanks all round!

I understand that you realise this. I don't think my original point came across. In my opinion the people who may buy your low end kits and the people on this forum (even newbies) are, on a whole, different sets of people with different aspirations and requirements. That said, I appreciate there is a wealth of collective knowledge here and your rationale for asking.

 

[SteveF]

i like the idea of kit with plans...etc

some cheaper tools work just the same

to me ...a hammer is a hammer

but may possibly be a way for people to get into woodwork and upgrade when they need to

just my opinion

Steve

and sometimes a cheap kit to throw in the car \ van is a get out of jail card


sorry i keep saying cheap....doesn't always make them inferior

Steve

 

[carlb40]

i like the idea of kit with plans...etc

some cheaper tools work just the same

to me ...a hammer is a hammer

but may possibly be a way for people to get into woodwork and upgrade when they need to

just my opinion

Steve

and sometimes a cheap kit to throw in the car \ van is a get out of jail card


sorry i keep saying cheap....doesn't always make them inferior

Steve

I guess it depends on your idea of cheap? Mine is QS planes and japanese chisels for work. Then better stuff for home/workshop so more than likely LN planes etc :mrgreen:

 

[tool-me-up]

i like the idea of kit with plans...etc

some cheaper tools work just the same

to me ...a hammer is a hammer

but may possibly be a way for people to get into woodwork and upgrade when they need to

just my opinion

Steve

and sometimes a cheap kit to throw in the car \ van is a get out of jail card


sorry i keep saying cheap....doesn't always make them inferior

Steve

You are exactly right here Steve - these kits are aimed at DIY users at best. If I was including £100+ plus hand planes - I doubt I would have to put them into a kit with an idiots guide of what each tool is for and what they can be used together to achieve.

 

[tool-me-up]

I guess it depends on your idea of cheap? Mine is QS planes and japanese chisels for work. Then better stuff for home/workshop so more than likely LN planes etc :mrgreen:

I think our love of our tools and readiness to own the best we can comes into play in this - usually in a big way.
Also if you run out it the workshop and use £1000's of tools every spare minute you get - you are probably past the stage of wanting a kit in the first place - it might be scary but I should also point out if you are at that stage you are no longer a DIY enthusiast - you officially have some sort of wallet draining, time consuming disorder that most people refer to as an obsession. I remain insistent that its a posh word for hobby :wink:

If I owned every tool I ever wanted I wouldn't be able to move in my workshop. Unfortunately I am in a position ( and probably will be for the forthcoming 18 years - my youngest is 3 months ) where I cant afford to buy what I want and have to settle with what I can afford.

Luckily I can usually knock together something adequate for very little layout - e.g my table saw - which has been put on hold to complete a hydraulic bike lift ( another thing I want but cant afford - I have a basic flat platform with hinged tail that goes up and down on a hydraulic jack - has cost only £20 so far. By the time it has been caked in non-slip tape, eye lets and wheel clamps etc etc I expect to still have cost under £50 and is perfectly functional and does the job.) Or my metal turning lathe which is perfectly adequate for the simple jobs I wanted a lathe for in the first place.

Of course I would much rather have a bike lift that is glossy red and covered in checker plate panels and a lathe that can cut threads and achieve higher grades of accuracy than mine - its just simply not budget-able at all in the fore-see-able future.

I think every one not just us tool-lovers wants the top quality stuff but there are a big percentage of those who either cant or simply wont pay for it - thus the market for budget tools is huge and fiercely competitive ( to the point some days I wish I chose another business!)

Any ways enough of my early morning ramblings - thanks for the input everyone - these ideas need a lot more work and fore thought than I originally planned and probably a small investment that I can ill afford but ill push on never the less - and get the first "kit" ready in the next few weeks I hope.

Nev - Your idea is genius the kits will include plans and cutting lists ( more brain racking) and Ill be back with those and my selection of tools for the first kit as soon as I can get it sorted - Im going to have to purchase the complete kit myself to actually get the pictures of them in use and make the step by step instructions.

There would be little point in writing just "cut here with a tenon saw" and then including a picture of my cheating and using the circular. I think even just having a different looking tool than whats included will cause confusion.

The first one will be a simple carpenters tool box aimed at novice adults, junior woodworkers or father and son builds etc.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Agreed....dry paper based instructions are too prone to be mis-interpreted by noob woodies. But we live in the internet age and I really think you already touched on the solution. As far as I'm aware this is not generally done and yet its absolutely BEGGING to be part of a commercial package which is you post a clear and well filmed (that means lighting and tripod plus decent movie camera or even a 3rd party holding the camera for difficult shots) youtube tutorial and thats a fundamental sales differentiator over your competition. Your kit comes with everything the noob needs to complete the job including the instruction. It used to be done by DVD of course but now there is no need to invest in any media because you can guarantee the buyer will have access at home.

So I would say, tools, measured (sketchup) plan and cutlist and youtube tutorial. Then just test the idea, see what the response is, get some feedback from real potential buyers.

 

[AndyT]

One more thought on the kit of parts idea - if you are thinking of supplying the wood and the tools - you could help people to decide to come to you if you include some things that are hard to find elsewhere. Maybe wood planed to less than 20mm thick, and some special hardware. (I'm thinking of Chris Schwarz's special 3-way bolt for his folding campaign stools.) Maybe a ukulele kit including the string holding bits?

 

[Graham Orm]

If you look in any Argos catalogue or the like you'll find 'tool kits', usually made up of the cheapest nastiest tools available and full of 'sets' of things most of which will never be used. (See the red bit holders in the mechanics set). I imagine these are targeted at novice DIY'ers. No experienced tradesman or DIY'er for that would buy such a kit.

Good luck with your venture, but I think you'll find what market there is for such things has already been cornered.
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/p ... 004968.htm
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/p ... 004360.htm
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/p ... 004339.htm

 

[Graham Orm]

I've thought about this a lot over the years and one of the primary reasons I enjoy woodworking is that at the end of the job you get something that exists in the physical world. Sport, IT, television etc all give you enjoyment during the process of doing them but nothing lasts. With woodwork, the "thing" particularly if made with tlc continues to deliver some of that tlc back everytime you see it. For me, I like that.

Though a tad off topic I confess

Great observation Bob. Agreed.

 

[Benchwayze]

Tool-me-up...

I remember when you could go to a 'real' tool-shop, with nothing but money, the clothes you stood up in, and a vague idea of what you needed. :mrgreen: Behind the counter, there would be a grey-haired chap wearing a khaki cow-gown, specs', collar and tie. He would genuinely welcome you, and put you right; and I mean put you right. No pushy sales talk; just sound advice on what you needed. They were invariably on the money. These days you can't do that in many places, so I suggest you get a decent book on 'Beginning Carpentry/ Carpentry for Beginners', etc.. and see what they advise on setting up your tool-box.

Please don't think I am 'being funny' as they say. I honestly believe if you can't find a real shop with a real counterman, then a good beginners' book is the way to go.
As for quality, buy the best you can afford.

HTH

 

[Jacob]

Did a list here tops-course-basic-kit-1982-t54291.html

 

[Jacob]

Found the revised list. A very good basic kit IMO. Only the boxwood rule a bit dated, all the other stuff useful (and well used)

Carpentry and Joinery Tops course kit. 1982

1 toolbox - made week 5

5 1/2 Record jack plane

Good quality Sanderson & Kayser saws:
26" hand saw 6tpi
22" panel saw 10tpi
14" tenon saw 14tpi

3 Marples firmer chisels 1" 3/4" 1/2"
Rabone Combination square
Whitehill 16oz claw hammer
Nail pullers (Footprint?)
sliding bevel (poor quality)
double sided oil stone - box made week 6
big screwdriver
small screwdriver
2 ft boxwood rule
nail punch
brace & bit (one 32mm bit for yale locks
mallet
S&J carpenters axe
marking gauge
bradawl
brass face marples spirit level
plumb bob