Wooden planes - original feature or repair?

[Mike.S]

I'm just sorting through a large group of wooden moulding planes and several have part of the body/sole being affixed by screws.

I've seen this online with some other planes but I don't know if this is how the planes were originally made or if it's later addition - perhaps to repair a worn/damaged part of the sole.

Here's a close up:

The matching nature of the wood used and patina suggests the part that's been screwed on may have been original but logic (mine, anyway) says not. I've seen cases where the sole/side have been carefully cut/planed away and boxwood etc repairs inserted (even dovetailed) - is this just a cruder version of that repair? If anyone can shed any light on the subject I'd be grateful.

 

[Jacob]

Repairs would be one-offs and bits wouldn't match but they look like a consistently repeated design i.e. from new. The screwed on part enabling replacement or exchange of the boxwood profile?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Mike - it's an original feature found on best quality moulding planes, usually beading planes. The idea is so that the 'slip' can be removed to allow the plane to work a bead tight against another moulding feature. You'll also notice that the shape of the boxing is more complex than usual. The two features together, often referred to as 'slipped and boxed', indicate top quality planes.

To find a set of slipped and boxed beading planes is a definite cause for a gloat! Nice one!

 

[AndyT]

Definitely original. In theory the 'slip' is removable to allow you to cut one element of a complex moulding without the full - width body of the plane getting in the way.
In practice, as far as I know, this feature is hardly ever needed and planes with this feature normally have screws which show no sign of ever having been undone, just like yours.

The plane in your second picture has unusually complex 'boxing' which was a skilled operation needing specialist planes to do it.

 

[Mike.S]

Thank you Jacob, CC and Andy.

Marvellous, three replies and all unanimous: original feature plus explanation that makes sense - even to me!

Definitely not a gloat - I'd have had to have appreciated what I had . The more I learn, the more I realise I don't know .

Having dismissed buying Bill Goodman's book on planes (pending Jane Rees updated edition) to research what I had, I thought I'd ask here first. Just as well. There's around 40 planes in my 'collection' - hollows, rounds, side/cock beads and complex moulding planes (no ploughs, fillisters or anything with a movable fence).

As individual planes don't seem to sell well (I see many listed on ebay for £2/3 going unsold), I was toying with selling them all as a 'whole' but perhaps these 'slipped and boxed' ones deserve their moment in the limelight. Or maybe I'll keep one or two, though I'm meant to be down-sizing... ](*,)

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

 

[bugbear]

Definitely original. In theory the 'slip' is removable to allow you to cut one element of a complex moulding without the full - width body of the plane getting in the way.
In practice, as far as I know, this feature is hardly ever needed and planes with this feature normally have screws which show no sign of ever having been undone, just like yours.

The plane in your second picture has unusually complex 'boxing' which was a skilled operation needing specialist planes to do it.

Although curiously, the projections are rectilinear, not dovetailed.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Definitely original. In theory the 'slip' is removable to allow you to cut one element of a complex moulding without the full - width body of the plane getting in the way.
In practice, as far as I know, this feature is hardly ever needed and planes with this feature normally have screws which show no sign of ever having been undone, just like yours.

The plane in your second picture has unusually complex 'boxing' which was a skilled operation needing specialist planes to do it.

Although curiously, the projections are rectilinear, not dovetailed.

.....
BugBear

Because it is designed to be removable.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Although curiously, the projections are rectilinear, not dovetailed.

Looking at those two photos, I can just about imagine(*) how you might go about planing those dovetails in the lower picture (the Groves one) - you can get access. The upper one, you'd need a very special plane to cut a dovetail in the side of that groove ?

(*)Digression I know, but that dovetailed boxing is amazing. How ? The accuracy needed to make that slide together is remarkable.

 

[bugbear]

Although curiously, the projections are rectilinear, not dovetailed.

.....
BugBear

Because it is designed to be removable.

Unless I'm misunderstanding AndyT's information, it's the screwed slip that's removed; the boxing remains.

Otherwise the plane would have no sole.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Although curiously, the projections are rectilinear, not dovetailed.

.....
BugBear

Because it is designed to be removable.

Unless I'm misunderstanding AndyT's information, it's the screwed slip that's removed; the boxing remains.

Otherwise the plane would have no sole.

BugBear

Either way it doesn't need DTs as its held in place by the "slip"

 

[D_W]

How do we know that the grooves for the boxing weren't cut by two separate machine tool operations?

 

[bugbear]

How do we know that the grooves for the boxing weren't cut by two separate machine tool operations?

Salaman gives some details on how boxing was fitted. All hand work.

BugBear

 

[D_W]

How do we know that the grooves for the boxing weren't cut by two separate machine tool operations?

Salaman gives some details on how boxing was fitted. All hand work.

BugBear

Apologies if I missed that. I wouldn't know how to set up a machine to do that cut, but at the same time, I wouldn't be able to do it without making a special plane, either. I'd be curious to see the plane that did it, because what I'd come up with would probably rotate into that cut.

 

[AndyT]

Yes, just to confirm, the simple rectangular slip, held by screws, is removable.
The boxing is definitely not supposed to come loose. A plane with simple smooth sided boxing relies on glue to hold it in. Mike's planes are a step up from that, with the interlocking shape.

The sort of interlocking boxing with dovetails is up a further step in quality and price. I've only seen it on fillister planes but it may have been available on beads.

It really was done with specialist plane maker's planes. There are some tremendous articles from 1898 "Work" magazine in which planemaker William Armour described the techniques in use. In part IV he discussed dovetail boxing and illustrated some of the special planes.

You can read it here http://www.handplane.com/35/practical-plane-making-part-iv/

Andy Toolsntat has some planes which I think were for this sort of rebating work.

 

[richarnold]

The only modern maker I have seen do this is ollie Sparks, and I know he made his own planes to do it
Check out his web site for details.
http://oliversparks.co.uk/gallery-colle ... /id-4.html

 

[AndyT]

The only modern maker I have seen do this is ollie Sparks, and I know he made his own planes to do it
Check out his web site for details.
http://oliversparks.co.uk/gallery-colle ... /id-4.html

That is a seriously impressive bit of planemaking by an amazingly skilled maker.

 

[bugbear]

The only modern maker I have seen do this is ollie Sparks, and I know he made his own planes to do it
Check out his web site for details.
http://oliversparks.co.uk/gallery-colle ... /id-4.html

That is a seriously impressive bit of planemaking by an amazingly skilled maker.

Nice plane (terrible photo, makes it look out of square!)

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Don't worry, BB, it's square. I have actually had the privilege of meeting this plane and its owner in person. He's a perfectionist!

 

[bugbear]

Don't worry, BB, it's square. I have actually had the privilege of meeting this plane and its owner in person. He's a perfectionist!

I guessed as much - hence my comment on the photo.

That's better. :lol:

BugBear