johnnyb
Established Member
just reading about the Newark show and people are suggesting it's a fairly small affair and that the woodwork "fancy" isn't what it used to be. if this is so why? or is it just the shows are in decline?
why is hobby woodworking in decline?
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Adam W.
A Major Clanger
eribaMotters
Established Member
I believe it's the age of the computer. I'm 62 and my old next door neighbour is a couple of years younger than me. When I was playing in the shed over the weekend making or repairing something he was and still is I believe playing computer games.
Colin
Colin
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
The shows may be, but is the craft in decline?
Maybe there are now enough gadgets in circulation to feed the second hand market, and nobody needs new ones?
There's a revival in traditionalism too. 3 planes 2 oil stones last you for life, say no to MDF, etc.
Did somebody mention sharpening?
Maybe there are now enough gadgets in circulation to feed the second hand market, and nobody needs new ones?
There's a revival in traditionalism too. 3 planes 2 oil stones last you for life, say no to MDF, etc.
Did somebody mention sharpening?
Cost is undoubtedly a contributor. Historically making furniture or other items could be done cost effectively. Now it is significantly cheaper to buy something at ikea or similar. This tends to push the hobby woodworker to ‘real’ wood and higher end expectations with the nose bleed pricing for the materials, if you can even get them.
Bristol_Rob
Established Member
I personally think the shows don't offer any deals worthy of people's time, money and effort to go.
Long time ago, manufacturers used to save releasing new tools at shows and gave genuinely good deals on them at the show. This doesn't happened any more because we can simply order online.
So what's left?
Demonstrations? Easier and better to watch YouTube.
Chat in person with an expert? I've tried this and it's not as easy as you think. Queue up for a very long time to maybe get a chat with someone who is under pressure to talk to as many people as possible.
I love going to these shows, but I understand why they aren't as popular as they once were - thoughts?
Long time ago, manufacturers used to save releasing new tools at shows and gave genuinely good deals on them at the show. This doesn't happened any more because we can simply order online.
So what's left?
Demonstrations? Easier and better to watch YouTube.
Chat in person with an expert? I've tried this and it's not as easy as you think. Queue up for a very long time to maybe get a chat with someone who is under pressure to talk to as many people as possible.
I love going to these shows, but I understand why they aren't as popular as they once were - thoughts?
Yojevol
Clocking on
My daughter's partner is an exhibition stand designer and since the pandemic he has had very little work. Exhibitions are an overhead which few companies can afford these days.
I've been selling a lot of kit recently and I've been pleasantly surprised at the tender age, ie under 40
, of many of my buyers.
Brian
I've been selling a lot of kit recently and I've been pleasantly surprised at the tender age, ie under 40
, of many of my buyers.Brian
I visited the elex / toolfair show in Bolton this week. It's much smaller than it used to be when held in Manchester pre pandemic. Few competitive deals were on offer so I came away with nothing. The Milwaukee agent wanted 20% more for an 18V kit than the same thing was selling online inc. next day delivery. I won't waste my time next year.
thetyreman
Established Member
most shows are commercial events where they sell you tools, it's basically a sausage fest of middle aged and old men salivating over the latest festool, I think what's been lost in the modern age is how to use hand tools FAST and still create a quality product, it is possible to speed things up massively even when using hand tools, but it only comes with experience and a lot of hand tool work on the job which not many people have the chance to do anymore, there are not many opportunities for that, also when you do have the skills most people do not want to pay for it, they want mastercraftsmanship for ikea prices.
This decline is in everything and not just woodworking, we are now a throwaway society where quality is not important as we don't have high expectations and seem to be ruled by advertising and marketing aimed at a process of continual sales by presenting us with the latest so called fad or technology.
This is where we are heading, to many people want the easier option and cannot be bothered to pay and travel to these types of show but there is a time and place for you tube as well as visiting a show, maybe people have too high an expectation from a show.
That is if your motivation is monetary, for me knowledge is far more valuable and motivating, not to mention the social aspect.
To fully understand or see the issue is not difficult, wherever you go people are just starring at there little screens and this should now be classed as an addiction and medically reconised so rehab can be provided. You go to a cafe and you see four people with zero interaction all on there little screens, you see a couple and again no interaction because they are in some other world, you see parents on their little screens whilst the kids are just ignored and it is getting worse so really nothing more than some form of zombism and we wonder why the real world is being left behind and no place for real events like shows.
Back to quality / uniqueness because I believe a hobby should be just that, if you make a few bob then great but the buzz should be from achievment. I understand that for some it might be their living in which case I can see the difficulties but how many people attending these shows are trade versus home woodworkers ? I am sure that if you produce the right product then there is a niche market because some people do not follow the crowds and want something unique which has been made for them and not some mass produced item from sweden where 10,000 other people currently have the same.
Again I think this is an age / generation thing where the later lot have been just buy it wheraas us older lot like the boomers have been makers, collectors and doers which is probably reflected in the age of the members on UKW. So if having such hobbies is generational then maybe the changes are linked and attitudes have changed. I have a couple of simple thoughts, one is that no mater how much money you have you cannot buy time and two is that no mater how much money you have you cannot take it with you, yes you could have an expensive box and fancy funeral but why, only others and the taxman will benefit from you so if you fancy a new tool for a hobby then buy it and hopefully at some point when you cannot continue find someone who will appreciate it and either sell it for a token gesture or just give it to them and make someone smile.
This is where we are heading, to many people want the easier option and cannot be bothered to pay and travel to these types of show but there is a time and place for you tube as well as visiting a show, maybe people have too high an expectation from a show.
That is if your motivation is monetary, for me knowledge is far more valuable and motivating, not to mention the social aspect.
To fully understand or see the issue is not difficult, wherever you go people are just starring at there little screens and this should now be classed as an addiction and medically reconised so rehab can be provided. You go to a cafe and you see four people with zero interaction all on there little screens, you see a couple and again no interaction because they are in some other world, you see parents on their little screens whilst the kids are just ignored and it is getting worse so really nothing more than some form of zombism and we wonder why the real world is being left behind and no place for real events like shows.
Back to quality / uniqueness because I believe a hobby should be just that, if you make a few bob then great but the buzz should be from achievment. I understand that for some it might be their living in which case I can see the difficulties but how many people attending these shows are trade versus home woodworkers ? I am sure that if you produce the right product then there is a niche market because some people do not follow the crowds and want something unique which has been made for them and not some mass produced item from sweden where 10,000 other people currently have the same.
Again I think this is an age / generation thing where the later lot have been just buy it wheraas us older lot like the boomers have been makers, collectors and doers which is probably reflected in the age of the members on UKW. So if having such hobbies is generational then maybe the changes are linked and attitudes have changed. I have a couple of simple thoughts, one is that no mater how much money you have you cannot buy time and two is that no mater how much money you have you cannot take it with you, yes you could have an expensive box and fancy funeral but why, only others and the taxman will benefit from you so if you fancy a new tool for a hobby then buy it and hopefully at some point when you cannot continue find someone who will appreciate it and either sell it for a token gesture or just give it to them and make someone smile.
I suspect a couple of generations of no metalwork/woodwork being taught has a lot to do with it.
(edit - I should have said at school.)
(edit - I should have said at school.)
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Very good point, if you don't instill interest whilst young then there is nothing to pursue later.
johnnyb
Established Member
the first show I ever went was at Stoneleigh. I remember really enjoying everything about it.it was fairly standard bit like harrogate
I had a spell of attending the shows at leicester( national forest woodfa ir) and similar was run by Derby County Council. these were quite different being mainly demonstrator led with a few old tools(me) they seemed to attract a family based crowd. I thought this might be " the future" but outside stuff is really weather dependant. a couple of rainy days and it's a dead loss. of course the normal tool shop stalls weren't there but the demonstrators were interesting and friendly.
I had a spell of attending the shows at leicester( national forest woodfa ir) and similar was run by Derby County Council. these were quite different being mainly demonstrator led with a few old tools(me) they seemed to attract a family based crowd. I thought this might be " the future" but outside stuff is really weather dependant. a couple of rainy days and it's a dead loss. of course the normal tool shop stalls weren't there but the demonstrators were interesting and friendly.
- societal expectations for families have changed and how they spend their time. Everything used to be closed on Sundays and there was nothing to do other than be at home
- the mark of a man used to be getting on and fixing stuff yourself and being handy. There’s now less of that due to regulations, increased reliability of consumer goods and lack of repair ability
The mark of a man now is whether they fit into 32” trousers and do they CrossFit / how much do they bench press / how far do they cycle on their Pinarello / what is their 5k PB
- houses built in the last 20 years are smaller with smaller gardens - often no garage or garage converted to living space / home gym / home office and no space in the garden for a workshop
- the mark of a man used to be getting on and fixing stuff yourself and being handy. There’s now less of that due to regulations, increased reliability of consumer goods and lack of repair ability
The mark of a man now is whether they fit into 32” trousers and do they CrossFit / how much do they bench press / how far do they cycle on their Pinarello / what is their 5k PB
- houses built in the last 20 years are smaller with smaller gardens - often no garage or garage converted to living space / home gym / home office and no space in the garden for a workshop
I like sharpening
Who doesn’t if you do it right.I like sharpening
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
I've only ever been to a couple of shows. I was bored stiff both times. Didn't see the point.
Not aware that interest in the craft had declined - maybe people are actually taking more interest and less bothered about the dodgy demos and displays of gadgets for the unwary beginner.
Not aware that interest in the craft had declined - maybe people are actually taking more interest and less bothered about the dodgy demos and displays of gadgets for the unwary beginner.
I remember my mother saying long after I'd left school that my headmaster had told her she was in danger of ending up with a very well educated carpenter. He was nearly correct.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
wot, just a carpenter?
A good point really - arts/craft skills, media, music, drama, all tend to be undervalued in the more trad state schools and with underfunding it's getting worse.
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johnnyb
Established Member
Kraftkabin( now gone) had a few shows at the Kings Hall stoke. low key but it helped me connect with guys and girls I'm still friends with now.
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