why is hobby woodworking in decline?

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This decline is in everything and not just woodworking, we are now a throwaway society where quality is not important as we don't have high expectations and seem to be ruled by advertising and marketing aimed at a process of continual sales by presenting us with the latest so called fad or technology.
Flawlessly said. Though I do observe a tendency of waking up from people in my age group (40's). I can only speak for my country though. In the recent months after the pandemic, it's like many of the people around me started to take steps back, like trying to see the bigger picture. I again started hearing topics on 'quality', 'hobby', 'craftmanship', etc.

I suspect a couple of generations of no metalwork/woodwork being taught has a lot to do with it.
2 years or so ago I started an apprenticeship with a sculptor/carpenter. Since then I have only met one 'woodworker' who was under 50 years old but still some 5 years older than myself. The rest of them are over 60. This part with skipping a few generations I believe happened everywhere. This internet revolution and the sudden arisal of 'cyber' jobs got us into a rush. I'm looking at myself how absorbed have I been with technology and it took me almost 20 years to realise I miss art and handiwork in my life. And there are so many who never have this realisation.

My personal opinion is not that woodworking is in decline but our society as a whole is in decline. But I see it as a decline of the capitalism as a system that was pushed in the wrong directions. Because we are human beings and this overly-marketed way of teaching us what we need is a construct that cannot hold forever with sentient beings.
 
I blame the computer - kids are all on the computer apart from a very few kids who are gifted in a sport or woodworking.

Did a 20 mile fell run today and it was 75% 40+ veterans.

We are a consumer society where we purchase things or experiences to satisfy them.

Few have the ability to do something useful, high end manufacturing excepted.
 
Some ‘old fogey’ ramblings about the decline in practical hobbies, if I may be permitted.

Born in 1939, I've lived through and observed profound societal changes that arose over the latter half of the last century which have reduced the amount of time (and money) that young people have in which to engage in hobbies, leading to a tendency towards fleeting ‘pastimes’ rather than hobbies.

Computers, internet, mobile phones, and social media are the thief of time. Texting, Tik Tok, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook (for the ‘oldies’), WhatsApp. Crikey, many people can’t go out for a meal, to the supermarket, cinema, or restaurant without faffing about with their phones. (We didn't have a landline until we were thirty).

In some ways, my generation had it easy compared to my children and certainly my grandchildren.

I started school aged 5 in 1944 - the year that the school leaving age was raised from 14 to 15, and Secondary Modern Schools were created. At age 11, children took the 11-plus exam, which four in five failed. The one-in-five who passed went to grammar schools, took GCEs and left at age 16 and got an office job. The other 4 in 5 went to Secondary Modern Schools and left at 15 with no qualifications (there were none to be had, so no homework).

https://leavershoodiescompany.co.uk/...l-leaving-age/

Secondary modern schools were less disposed than grammar schools to promote academic achievement, they were more about reining in any fanciful notions you may have had about rising above your station in life - you were pre-destined to be 'factory fodder'. ("You'll be working with your hands - not your brain lad" ).

In their original conception, secondary modern school children 'were to be shielded from the stultifying effects of external examinations' with students having no access to GCE O Levels or other external examinations. Those who went there (including me) were taught rudimentary skills including metalwork and woodwork before being set to work at age 15 in factories, building trade apprenticeships or menial jobs. If they were lucky, (me), maybe an apprenticeship, where they’d typically have a day a week at college, and two nights at night school to study for C&G trade exams. Other than that, at the end of the working day and at weekends, their time was their own, and they had money in their pockets for hobbies, with few of the distractions of life nowadays.

In the mid-1950s, only 3.5% of school leavers went to university – overwhelmingly from middle class backgrounds.

Move on a generation:

1972: School leaving age for all raised to 16. Exams and homework for all.

2013: School leaving age Raised to 17. Yet more exams and more homework.

2015, raised to 18.

At age 18, I’d passed intermediate C&G Intermediate and Final practical and theory exams, was working unsupervised and had been earning a wage for three years. At 22 I was married, with a semi-detached house. One third was the deposit, two thirds the mortgage.

In 1972, 15% of school leavers went to university.

By 2000, 35% went to university, and in 2018, 50.2%.

It's not enough to get a degree - many are under pressure to get that all-important 2:1 or above degree classification. One-third of students were awarded firsts or 2:1s in 1970. In 2015 it was over two-thirds. (70%). They graduate with a debt of £40,000 and have to compete for jobs in the graduate jobs market. They won't get a face-to-face interview unless they pass an online multi-stage A.I. screening process.

So, studying for GCEs and A levels, then university leaves no time (or money) to take up hobbies.

If you get into positions of authority, by thirty, if you want to 'climb further up the greasy pole' you're going to need an MBA to top up your degree. If you're lucky, by mid career you may become cash rich, but you will be time poor and you're really not going to have hours on end to start building a model railway outfit. If you have twenty years experience, fifteen of it will be obsolete, and in the next five years, you'll need acquire challenging new skills.

For the most part, my generation, had none of those pressures – you left school on Friday, started a job on Monday and if you didn’t like it, you left and got another job. True, you had work and career pressures, particularly if you wanted to ‘rise through the ranks’ but you did have some time for hobbies and your working day was the time you spent at your place of work. Particularly since the start of the pandemic, working from home has taken off and as a result, many people have no clearly defined boundaries between work and domestic life, and hence, little free time for hobbies.

As a parent, the very last thing I'd have wanted for our two sons when they were studying for 'O' and 'A' levels would have been the distractions of a hobby. It was a relief - not a disappointment, that they had no interest in any of my hobbies (they thought hobbies were for dads - not for lads).

Our two sons went to university in the 1980s, before the distraction of internet, mobile ‘phones and social media. Our three granddaughters studied relentlessly for GCEs and A Levels. One (aged 24) graduated two years ago and our twin granddaughters (aged 21) are in their final year. They play a full part in university life, but hobbies are off the agenda. They will leave university later this year with tuition fee debts of £40K+

Some hobbies are flourishing, but most participants are in mid or late career or are retired and have both the time and the financial resources which younger people - however interested they might be - do not. The woodturning Club of which I’m secretary had 65 members when lockdown struck in March 2020. We were not able to re-launch the Club until March last year. In the two years of enforced closure, we lost 14 members due to infirmity, moving away, passing away, or losing interest, but have gained new members, now have 60 and are back on a sound footing.

Incidentally, not so much a hobby or a pastime, but my generation were very much involved in DIY. That seems to be well past its peak, given that we now live in a post-industrial society with many fewer people having been taught practical skills or working in jobs where craft skills were the norm. What was ‘DIY’ has been supplanted with ‘GSI’ – Get Someone In. (Great for the trade – try to find a plumber, carpenter, kitchen fitter, decorator, electrician, brickie etc).

Apologies for rambling and dribbling all over the thread.

David.

'Use what talents you possess - the woods would be very silent if the only birds that sang there were those that sang the best'. (Henry Van Dyke).
 
I go to the gym regularly and I'm surprised at the amount of young people there (even on a weekend and Friday night). Got me thinking they probably have little else to do, not necessarily a bad thing thou.
 
Some ‘old fogey’ ramblings about the decline in practical hobbies, if I may be permitted.

Born in 1939, I've lived through and observed profound societal changes that arose over the latter half of the last century which have reduced the amount of time (and money) that young people have in which to engage in hobbies, leading to a tendency towards fleeting ‘pastimes’ rather than hobbies.

Computers, internet, mobile phones, and social media are the thief of time. Texting, Tik Tok, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook (for the ‘oldies’), WhatsApp. Crikey, many people can’t go out for a meal, to the supermarket, cinema, or restaurant without faffing about with their phones. (We didn't have a landline until we were thirty).

In some ways, my generation had it easy compared to my children and certainly my grandchildren.

I started school aged 5 in 1944 - the year that the school leaving age was raised from 14 to 15, and Secondary Modern Schools were created. At age 11, children took the 11-plus exam, which four in five failed. The one-in-five who passed went to grammar schools, took GCEs and left at age 16 and got an office job. The other 4 in 5 went to Secondary Modern Schools and left at 15 with no qualifications (there were none to be had, so no homework).

https://leavershoodiescompany.co.uk/...l-leaving-age/

Secondary modern schools were less disposed than grammar schools to promote academic achievement, they were more about reining in any fanciful notions you may have had about rising above your station in life - you were pre-destined to be 'factory fodder'. ("You'll be working with your hands - not your brain lad" ).

In their original conception, secondary modern school children 'were to be shielded from the stultifying effects of external examinations' with students having no access to GCE O Levels or other external examinations. Those who went there (including me) were taught rudimentary skills including metalwork and woodwork before being set to work at age 15 in factories, building trade apprenticeships or menial jobs. If they were lucky, (me), maybe an apprenticeship, where they’d typically have a day a week at college, and two nights at night school to study for C&G trade exams. Other than that, at the end of the working day and at weekends, their time was their own, and they had money in their pockets for hobbies, with few of the distractions of life nowadays.

In the mid-1950s, only 3.5% of school leavers went to university – overwhelmingly from middle class backgrounds.

Move on a generation:

1972: School leaving age for all raised to 16. Exams and homework for all.

2013: School leaving age Raised to 17. Yet more exams and more homework.

2015, raised to 18.

At age 18, I’d passed intermediate C&G Intermediate and Final practical and theory exams, was working unsupervised and had been earning a wage for three years. At 22 I was married, with a semi-detached house. One third was the deposit, two thirds the mortgage.

In 1972, 15% of school leavers went to university.

By 2000, 35% went to university, and in 2018, 50.2%.

It's not enough to get a degree - many are under pressure to get that all-important 2:1 or above degree classification. One-third of students were awarded firsts or 2:1s in 1970. In 2015 it was over two-thirds. (70%). They graduate with a debt of £40,000 and have to compete for jobs in the graduate jobs market. They won't get a face-to-face interview unless they pass an online multi-stage A.I. screening process.

So, studying for GCEs and A levels, then university leaves no time (or money) to take up hobbies.

If you get into positions of authority, by thirty, if you want to 'climb further up the greasy pole' you're going to need an MBA to top up your degree. If you're lucky, by mid career you may become cash rich, but you will be time poor and you're really not going to have hours on end to start building a model railway outfit. If you have twenty years experience, fifteen of it will be obsolete, and in the next five years, you'll need acquire challenging new skills.

For the most part, my generation, had none of those pressures – you left school on Friday, started a job on Monday and if you didn’t like it, you left and got another job. True, you had work and career pressures, particularly if you wanted to ‘rise through the ranks’ but you did have some time for hobbies and your working day was the time you spent at your place of work. Particularly since the start of the pandemic, working from home has taken off and as a result, many people have no clearly defined boundaries between work and domestic life, and hence, little free time for hobbies.

As a parent, the very last thing I'd have wanted for our two sons when they were studying for 'O' and 'A' levels would have been the distractions of a hobby. It was a relief - not a disappointment, that they had no interest in any of my hobbies (they thought hobbies were for dads - not for lads).

Our two sons went to university in the 1980s, before the distraction of internet, mobile ‘phones and social media. Our three granddaughters studied relentlessly for GCEs and A Levels. One (aged 24) graduated two years ago and our twin granddaughters (aged 21) are in their final year. They play a full part in university life, but hobbies are off the agenda. They will leave university later this year with tuition fee debts of £40K+

Some hobbies are flourishing, but most participants are in mid or late career or are retired and have both the time and the financial resources which younger people - however interested they might be - do not. The woodturning Club of which I’m secretary had 65 members when lockdown struck in March 2020. We were not able to re-launch the Club until March last year. In the two years of enforced closure, we lost 14 members due to infirmity, moving away, passing away, or losing interest, but have gained new members, now have 60 and are back on a sound footing.

Incidentally, not so much a hobby or a pastime, but my generation were very much involved in DIY. That seems to be well past its peak, given that we now live in a post-industrial society with many fewer people having been taught practical skills or working in jobs where craft skills were the norm. What was ‘DIY’ has been supplanted with ‘GSI’ – Get Someone In. (Great for the trade – try to find a plumber, carpenter, kitchen fitter, decorator, electrician, brickie etc).

Apologies for rambling and dribbling all over the thread.

David.

'Use what talents you possess - the woods would be very silent if the only birds that sang there were those that sang the best'. (Henry Van Dyke).
You are correct but some figures are out. % at university -

1971–725.77
1972–7328.54
 
It's not enough to get a degree - many are under pressure to get that all-important 2:1 or above degree classification.
Have met some of these, one stands out as having one in electronics but could not use a soldering iron.

My career advice today would be get a good education and trade then emigrate. Have heard quiet a few nurses are now doing just that for better respect and life elswhere.
 
What for some may be ramblings, for others is enlightening. Personally, I thank you Yorkieguy for sharing your experiences, perspective and point of view.
Other than that, at the end of the working day and at weekends, their time was their own, and they had money in their pockets for hobbies, with few of the distractions of life nowadays.
Someone once said about my generation, those born in the late 70's and early 80's, that we had an analogical youth and we're having a digital maturity. From an educational point of view, the digital era started when we were at the right age to incorporate it into our beings, making us live in both worlds - to be able to value the 'analogical', whether we name it practical or else, while also 'speaking' technology. Of course, this fact is a little exaggerated, it's not limited to our generation but to several age categories. But from the perspective of one representative of this phenomenon, as a person who understands digital technology as a second nature, I can honestly state that I feel all this is a trap. The greatest of our time. In my native language, the equivalent of the word 'distraction' and its main sense nowdays is 'to have fun'. It's actual meaning is that of a distraction from doing/achieving something.

many people have no clearly defined boundaries between work and domestic life, and hence, little free time for hobbies
All in all, I feel cheated. This system of alleged (online) evolution entangled with concepts of unrealistic work routines don't get us to a point of professional greatness. Nor to high moral grounds. Nor to a life of plenitude. They dehumanize us to a point where we actually forget everything that at some point made us, us. Of course we don't have boundaries between work and domestic life, such boundaries are not taught anymore. Today's system needs more cogs and less free thinkers.
I do miss the good old days before the digital era when we would have our own time. I was little back then but I do remember its reflection in the lives of my elders. Today is indeed hard to master your own time. I recently gave up my business to start woodworking and among the first things that I realised was that all of the sudden, without spending time at the computer, I would have this huge amount of free time. It was consternating. 'Ok, I work several hours in the shop, I do house chores and spend some time with myself and loved ones, but what else should I do with all this time that I have?!' I then realised how the online job and business I had swallowed my entire time and my entire life. I don't advocate that this happens to everyone. Probably there are saner people than me who can balance professional and personal lives and have healthy boundaries in relation with the online work. I didn't.

I will stop here because, as opposed to my 'predecessor', I know I am rambling. Too much to say in too little words.
 
Have met some of these, one stands out as having one in electronics but could not use a soldering iron.

My career advice today would be get a good education and trade then emigrate. Have heard quiet a few nurses are now doing just that for better respect and life elswhere.
My sister (SEN, SRN, B.Sc. and PGCE) is doing fine in NZ. Her husband was a ship's joiner, now head of department in a school and they have a good life and two houses worth maybe £2,000,000 between them.
 
Some ‘old fogey’ ramblings about the decline in practical hobbies, if I may be permitted.

Born in 1939, I've lived through and observed profound societal changes that arose over the latter half of the last century which have reduced the amount of time (and money) that young people have in which to engage in hobbies, leading to a tendency towards fleeting ‘pastimes’ rather than hobbies.

Computers, internet, mobile phones, and social media are the thief of time. Texting, Tik Tok, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook (for the ‘oldies’), WhatsApp. Crikey, many people can’t go out for a meal, to the supermarket, cinema, or restaurant without faffing about with their phones. (We didn't have a landline until we were thirty).

In some ways, my generation had it easy compared to my children and certainly my grandchildren.

I started school aged 5 in 1944 - the year that the school leaving age was raised from 14 to 15, and Secondary Modern Schools were created. At age 11, children took the 11-plus exam, which four in five failed. The one-in-five who passed went to grammar schools, took GCEs and left at age 16 and got an office job. The other 4 in 5 went to Secondary Modern Schools and left at 15 with no qualifications (there were none to be had, so no homework).

https://leavershoodiescompany.co.uk/...l-leaving-age/

Secondary modern schools were less disposed than grammar schools to promote academic achievement, they were more about reining in any fanciful notions you may have had about rising above your station in life - you were pre-destined to be 'factory fodder'. ("You'll be working with your hands - not your brain lad" ).

In their original conception, secondary modern school children 'were to be shielded from the stultifying effects of external examinations' with students having no access to GCE O Levels or other external examinations. Those who went there (including me) were taught rudimentary skills including metalwork and woodwork before being set to work at age 15 in factories, building trade apprenticeships or menial jobs. If they were lucky, (me), maybe an apprenticeship, where they’d typically have a day a week at college, and two nights at night school to study for C&G trade exams. Other than that, at the end of the working day and at weekends, their time was their own, and they had money in their pockets for hobbies, with few of the distractions of life nowadays.

In the mid-1950s, only 3.5% of school leavers went to university – overwhelmingly from middle class backgrounds.

Move on a generation:

1972: School leaving age for all raised to 16. Exams and homework for all.

2013: School leaving age Raised to 17. Yet more exams and more homework.

2015, raised to 18.

At age 18, I’d passed intermediate C&G Intermediate and Final practical and theory exams, was working unsupervised and had been earning a wage for three years. At 22 I was married, with a semi-detached house. One third was the deposit, two thirds the mortgage.

In 1972, 15% of school leavers went to university.

By 2000, 35% went to university, and in 2018, 50.2%.

It's not enough to get a degree - many are under pressure to get that all-important 2:1 or above degree classification. One-third of students were awarded firsts or 2:1s in 1970. In 2015 it was over two-thirds. (70%). They graduate with a debt of £40,000 and have to compete for jobs in the graduate jobs market. They won't get a face-to-face interview unless they pass an online multi-stage A.I. screening process.

So, studying for GCEs and A levels, then university leaves no time (or money) to take up hobbies.

If you get into positions of authority, by thirty, if you want to 'climb further up the greasy pole' you're going to need an MBA to top up your degree. If you're lucky, by mid career you may become cash rich, but you will be time poor and you're really not going to have hours on end to start building a model railway outfit. If you have twenty years experience, fifteen of it will be obsolete, and in the next five years, you'll need acquire challenging new skills.

For the most part, my generation, had none of those pressures – you left school on Friday, started a job on Monday and if you didn’t like it, you left and got another job. True, you had work and career pressures, particularly if you wanted to ‘rise through the ranks’ but you did have some time for hobbies and your working day was the time you spent at your place of work. Particularly since the start of the pandemic, working from home has taken off and as a result, many people have no clearly defined boundaries between work and domestic life, and hence, little free time for hobbies.

As a parent, the very last thing I'd have wanted for our two sons when they were studying for 'O' and 'A' levels would have been the distractions of a hobby. It was a relief - not a disappointment, that they had no interest in any of my hobbies (they thought hobbies were for dads - not for lads).

Our two sons went to university in the 1980s, before the distraction of internet, mobile ‘phones and social media. Our three granddaughters studied relentlessly for GCEs and A Levels. One (aged 24) graduated two years ago and our twin granddaughters (aged 21) are in their final year. They play a full part in university life, but hobbies are off the agenda. They will leave university later this year with tuition fee debts of £40K+

Some hobbies are flourishing, but most participants are in mid or late career or are retired and have both the time and the financial resources which younger people - however interested they might be - do not. The woodturning Club of which I’m secretary had 65 members when lockdown struck in March 2020. We were not able to re-launch the Club until March last year. In the two years of enforced closure, we lost 14 members due to infirmity, moving away, passing away, or losing interest, but have gained new members, now have 60 and are back on a sound footing.

Incidentally, not so much a hobby or a pastime, but my generation were very much involved in DIY. That seems to be well past its peak, given that we now live in a post-industrial society with many fewer people having been taught practical skills or working in jobs where craft skills were the norm. What was ‘DIY’ has been supplanted with ‘GSI’ – Get Someone In. (Great for the trade – try to find a plumber, carpenter, kitchen fitter, decorator, electrician, brickie etc).

Apologies for rambling and dribbling all over the thread.

David.

'Use what talents you possess - the woods would be very silent if the only birds that sang there were those that sang the best'. (Henry Van Dyke).
Why no hobbies?

We have encouraged our daughters to have hobbies theatre, dress making and baking - her choice the younger horse riding and animal husbandry - wants to be a vet.

The boys however spend imo too much time on the computer and not enough physical activity despite getting a dog and having a one gym.

Out if the two the girls are more likely to say woodwork too.

There is imho a absence of "good" manliness in our society...
 
There is no reason for this to get political, or too political and for anyone to not be nice and freindly as it is tracking the demise of the Uk, why should we be any different to the Aztecs, Phonetians or any other once great empire as it is just a natural cycle of rise and fall.
 
There is no reason for this to get political, or too political and for anyone to not be nice and freindly as it is tracking the demise of the Uk, why should we be any different to the Aztecs, Phonetians or any other once great empire as it is just a natural cycle of rise and fall.
Except it's not "natural" in any sense.
UK has been run down on the back of childish neo-liberal economic theories (Thatcher, Reagan etc) and is being further run down by brexit - a deliberate decision grossly mismanaged primarily by Cameron and then Johnson, and other crowd pleasing clowns such as Farage. It is intensely "political".
PS and is there any evidence that hobby woodworking is in decline? Not turning up at shows or buying mags could be seen as a sign of maturity!
 
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I think hobbies in general are more accessible than ever. it's just woodwork isn't one of them. I do get that it's dirty and a bit dangerous. maybe the gateway of doing your first house up is closed to to many.

I laughed when people we're suggesting that they didn't have time. my nephew was desperate to stay in the uk as in hong kong he knew he would be working 9 til 10 with little respite. (he is now working those hours)
 
Except it's not "natural" in any sense.
UK has been run down on the back of childish neo-liberal economic theories (Thatcher, Reagan etc) and is being further run down by brexit - a deliberate decision grossly mismanaged primarily by Cameron and then Johnson, and other crowd pleasing clowns such as Farage. It is intensely "political".
PS and is there any evidence that hobby woodworking is in decline? Not turning up at shows or buying mags could be seen as a sign of maturity!
I said it would degenerate into a political bunfight, and lo and behold ...
 
Interesting that gym activities got a mention. Pushing a plane or a spot of sawing would give exercise and lead to something other than a pile of sweaty clothes at the end of the process.My next door neighbour is a recently retired teacher and not at all impressed with what her colleagues were doing in the technical sphere.Which doesn't help with getting people started in woodworking,unless they come from a family with a practical background.

As posted elsewhere,I went to Newark today and my very rough guess is that no more than 5% of the visitors were under 60.My feeling is that the escalator is going up an the next steps are missing.Which may well result in a glut of tools and machines in a few years,perhaps to be picked up for such trivial amounts that a few bold souls will be tempted to buy some and join the fun.
 
When I was a young child, we had very little money - so if you wanted something you had to make it - or repair a "cast off". No one was there to help you, so you just had to figure it out yourself. Gradually your skills, and the results improved. You also learned you how to think your way through challenges. That was a really rewarding process.
These days, that self reliance is not a part of how children are brought up - it's not necessary because parents give their children most things they want.
It only takes one generation for self reliance to be lost.
Praise to this site for encouraging those willing to "give it a go"
 
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