Who is in and who is out?

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The saddest part of a 92 page toxic topic splitting former allies in this forum is that if is extremely unlikely to ever happen. Cameron handed over the poison challis to ensure nobody ever pulls the trigger on invoking article 50.

Boris et al would be damned if they didn't, and hung drawn and quartered if they did. Nobody in their right mind is going to take responsibility of dismantling the way a whole Nation is run or trades. It will never happen. Nobody has the funds, the means or the will to do it.


Phil
 
I agree.
I don't think it's going to happen. Cameron has dipped out of a very firm promise (not for the first time) and handed the poison chalice to Boris/Gove - already trimming like mad, or someone else. Corbyn might end up as PM and could ignore the whole thing as a tory internal party battle not of his making.
 
Sturgeon wants one thing only. Independence for Scotland. She has the blinkers on; unable to see she would be breaking away form one historic enemy, England; (which is what she's all about of course) and would then sacrifice newly won Independence to the control of the United States of Europe. Even less democratic than she brands Westminster! And if she can't see that, then she hasn't the wit I thought she had.

'Nuff said for me. Back to the workshop in the morning.
 
Jacob":2utvufoz said:
Corbyn might end up as PM.

Indeed. In a universe in which he was a competent leader, able to sing to anyone outside the choir.
 
Sheptonphil":1kjtg9eb said:
The saddest part of a 92 page toxic topic splitting former allies in this forum is that if is extremely unlikely to ever happen. Cameron handed over the poison challis to ensure nobody ever pulls the trigger on invoking article 50.

Boris et al would be damned if they didn't, and hung drawn and quartered if they did. Nobody in their right mind is going to take responsibility of dismantling the way a whole Nation is run or trades. It will never happen. Nobody has the funds, the means or the will to do it.


Phil

Broket.
Brexit from Brexit.
Just apologise to the Chinese, the Japanese and the rest of the world. Tell them that the strong Polish lager they have been sending over is a little stronger than what we are accustomed to.
As I said previously, the politics of the lunatic asylum.
 
After days of the BBC continuing with its Remain agenda and Project Fear, it is interesting to see how other people view Brexit.

Paolo Barnard, the most censored italian economic journalist, reveals his view on BREXIT and the European Union.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9cLwoTkWes



Die Welt, a major German newspaper savages the EU

"Britain Votes Merkel Out Of Office, Too" is the astonishing headline from Germany's 3rd largest newspaper Die Welt. Pinning the blame for The Brits' vote, the op-ed lambasts The EU's political failure, "The British do not leave the EU as narrow-minded snobs that had not meant it to happen that way, but as proud democrats that no longer wanted to put up with the snags and political failures of the EU;" and puts the blame squarely on the sagging shoulders of Angela Merkel (and her solo attempts at refugee policy)... "voters in Britain basically also voted Angela Merkel out of office. Before she becomes the EU's gravedigger for good, she should follow David Cameron's example."


The full article is worth reading
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-2 ... ravedigger

Funny how others are now seeing the reality of Brexit but the Brussels Broadcasting Company is stuck in a time warp and talking the country and the Brexit decision down
 
Hilariously, the petition for a second referendum was actually started by a leave supporter who clearly didn't have much confidence in the leave vote winning, and was presumably acting on Farage's idea that 48 - 52 was too close of a margin.

By some twist of fate the actual vote was 52 - 48 in the opposite direction, and the petition was co-opted by the remain voters. I thought the lead up to the vote was a shambles, but it continues.

I actually think the political sniping at the moment is fascinating. An MP from the leave campaign admitted today that they had no exit strategy because they assumed Cameron would take care of it, but they didn't count on him resigning and handing the job over to them. I have actually come out of this with a bigger respect for Cameron that I was previously comfortable with. Osbourne, Hunt, Boris and Gove have gone down even further in my estimations however.

Boris's rhetoric considering his dual citizenship, fluent French, the amount of time he has spent in Europe and the fact that his dad is one of the biggest pro-EU campaigners to date I seriously worry about what would happen if he became PM. He has revealed that he is happy to compromise his integrity for a chance at a promotion or two; when the likes of Murdoch are attempting to line his pockets we might have our very own Burlosconi.
 
'Boris Johnson says the UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with the EU and tells his fellow Leave supporters they must accept the 52-48 referendum win was "not entirely overwhelming".

The pro-Leave campaign head, says "the only change" will be to free the country from the EU's "extraordinary and opaque" law, which "will not come in any great rush".

It's getting more and more watered down by the day.
 
Meanwhile the £ is taking another hit on the asian market.
We just might need that $250 billion of funny money Mr. Carney.
 
Very astute article by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in the (pro-Brexit) Telegraph. He puts political and legal flesh on the theoretical bones of how Brexit will happen without really happening at all.

-Prime Minister Boris (or whoever) advocates going back to the pre-Maastricht rules on migration, so there's a right to work rather than free migration under the banner of EU citizenship. So no change then for all the industrious Poles who want to come, but the politicians can still spin us a story that they've saved us from an invasion of millions of benefit scroungers. And if they need more migration ammunition they can introduce an Australian points style system for non-EU immigrants, that would sound impressive but in reality it's not that different to what exists today.

-This is increasingly being described as the "soft Brexit" option, it would be acceptable to the majority of parliamentarians, and furthermore they'll rightly claim they have a duty to act for everyone, and that includes the remain vote as well as the exit vote.

-As well as Parliament this would certainly get the support of the Trades Unions, the City, and Industry.

-Furthermore there's a special duty of care actually written into the devolution settlements of Scotland and Northern Ireland. So a nervous politician could claim to angry Leave voters that his hands were tied, the referendum after all was only advisory, but there is a legal duty to protect the wishes of Scotland and NI.

-There'd be some ceremonial scrapping of some peripheral EU legislation, trivial stuff like curly bananas or high powered vacuum cleaners, enough to be able to say "look, we really have taken back control".

-Francois Villeroy de Galhau from the European Central Bank is already making encouraging overtures suggesting this route would preserve the passporting rights for the UK financial services industry, and the powerful German lobbying group, the BDI, is also suggesting this is the way to go, allowing two way trade between the UK and EU to be maintained virtually unchanged.

-Significantly the next PM will be emphasising the degree to which we're all conveniently playing by rules set not by the EU, but by global bodies above the EU; like the World Trade Organisation, Financial Stability Board, and Basel Banking Committee.

-Most important of all is Chancellor Merkel, and her mumsy directive "there is no need to be nasty", this trumps the federalist rage of Jean Claude Juncker so we can safely discount him.

-There's no doubt that Italy are desperate for just such a compromise, some of their banks suffered share price falls on Friday greater than in the post-Lehman mess, so their vote is virtually in the bag already.

Anyone who remembers "Yes Minister" will recognise immediately that this is almost certainly the way it will all play out. Brexit does really happen...just nothing actually changes.
 
Inoffthered":gr29mcjn said:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-26/die-welt-calls-merkels-resignation-slams-eus-gravedigger

Funny how others are now seeing the reality of Brexit but the Brussels Broadcasting Company is stuck in a time warp and talking the country and the Brexit decision down

You can always find opinions to validate your decision, and the best place to look first if those are of the nutcase variety is zerohedge (guido if you want a bit more domestic flavour).
 
MIGNAL":2hp4m8pk said:
.

It's getting more and more watered down by the day.


There will be a huge backlash at the next general election.
Labour is in meltdown and still hasn't recognised that it is on a totally different page to its core voters.
Ditto the Tories.

The by election at Birstall will be interesting if UKIP put up a candidate. Birstalll voted out in the referendum.

As for the decision not to invoke Article 50, I understand that the reason is that once invoked the EU nominate a negotiating team and all discussions go through them, until then the UK can speak to other governments directly.
I see that the Czech prime minister has suggested that Juncker should resign because the crisis in the EU is down to him. It makes you wonder what is going on in the background.

As for the petition, the really amusing thing is to see the BBC getting so excited about it and wilfully ignoring the fact that most of the names have been added by bots , but hey, anything they can use to denigrate the country and create strife is good for them. They are clearly a propaganda outfit for someone and they need sorting out.
 
How are we going to fix the country guys? is it fixable and in the words of one of our fellow Craftsmen Bob The Builder.... Can we fix it? :wink:
 
Jake":2idugrx5 said:
Inoffthered":2idugrx5 said:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-26/die-welt-calls-merkels-resignation-slams-eus-gravedigger

Funny how others are now seeing the reality of Brexit but the Brussels Broadcasting Company is stuck in a time warp and talking the country and the Brexit decision down

You can always find opinions to validate your decision, and the best place to look first if those are of the nutcase variety is zerohedge (guido if you want a bit more domestic flavour).

I wouldn't call Die Welt a nutcase publication but hey you have your echo chambers, I'll have mine.

I can recommend the Guardian comments if you want a laugh, all of the little Tarquins and Jemimas having apoplexy at how the working classes/old folk etc are making it more expensive to get to the villa in Italy, and all of the nast Leavers they have unfriended lol priceless.
 
Inoffthered":77ft5w96 said:
Jake":77ft5w96 said:
Inoffthered":77ft5w96 said:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-26/die-welt-calls-merkels-resignation-slams-eus-gravedigger

Funny how others are now seeing the reality of Brexit but the Brussels Broadcasting Company is stuck in a time warp and talking the country and the Brexit decision down

You can always find opinions to validate your decision, and the best place to look first if those are of the nutcase variety is zerohedge (guido if you want a bit more domestic flavour).


Yes and the Guardian comments are well worth a look as well, all of the little Tarquins and Jemimas having apoplexy at how the working classes/old folk etc are making it more expensive to get to the villa in Italy, and all of the nast Leavers they have unfriended lol priceless.

I couldn't be bothered to read those either. I don't think they are direct parallels though as you would have to head off way further to find leftwing nutjobs with as bonkers views.
 
custard":2dtszjt9 said:
Very astute article by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in the (pro-Brexit) Telegraph. He puts political and legal flesh on the theoretical bones of how Brexit will happen without really happening at all.

-Prime Minister Boris (or whoever) advocates going back to the pre-Maastricht rules on migration, so there's a right to work rather than free migration under the banner of EU citizenship. So no change then for all the industrious Poles who want to come, but the politicians can still spin us a story that they've saved us from an invasion of millions of benefit scroungers. And if they need more migration ammunition they can introduce an Australian points style system for non-EU immigrants, that would sound impressive but in reality it's not that different to what exists today.

-This is increasingly being described as the "soft Brexit" option, it would be acceptable to the majority of parliamentarians, and furthermore they'll rightly claim they have a duty to act for everyone, and that includes the remain vote as well as the exit vote.

-As well as Parliament this would certainly get the support of the Trades Unions, the City, and Industry.

-Furthermore there's a special duty of care actually written into the devolution settlements of Scotland and Northern Ireland. So a nervous politician could claim to angry Leave voters that his hands were tied, the referendum after all was only advisory, but there is a legal duty to protect the wishes of Scotland and NI.

-There'd be some ceremonial scrapping of some peripheral EU legislation, trivial stuff like curly bananas or high powered vacuum cleaners, enough to be able to say "look, we really have taken back control".

-Francois Villeroy de Galhau from the European Central Bank is already making encouraging overtures suggesting this route would preserve the passporting rights for the UK financial services industry, and the powerful German lobbying group, the BDI, is also suggesting this is the way to go, allowing two way trade between the UK and EU to be maintained virtually unchanged.

-Significantly the next PM will be emphasising the degree to which we're all conveniently playing by rules set not by the EU, but by global bodies above the EU; like the World Trade Organisation, Financial Stability Board, and Basel Banking Committee.

-Most important of all is Chancellor Merkel, and her mumsy directive "there is no need to be nasty", this trumps the federalist rage of Jean Claude Juncker so we can safely discount him.

-There's no doubt that Italy are desperate for just such a compromise, some of their banks suffered share price falls on Friday greater than in the post-Lehman mess, so their vote is virtually in the bag already.

Anyone who remembers "Yes Minister" will recognise immediately that this is almost certainly the way it will all play out. Brexit does really happen...just nothing actually changes.

Hear, hear. All that fuss for f.a.
Wonder how much the whole thing cost? Probably a year or two of EU contributions when you factor in all the lost production. I'm pretty sure that Cameron owes me a couple of grand given the amount of time I've downed tools.
 
MIGNAL":3n1np9t5 said:
Wonder how much the whole thing cost? Probably a year or two of EU contributions when you factor in all the lost production.
If you include the loss of UK value through the fallen pound and stock market, the last figure I saw was the equivalent of 40 years of contributions.
 
With that petition, 'most' of the votes hadn't been added by bots. They removed 77,000 dodgy ones out of three million votes.
 
This is turning into a screenwriters dream. Who would you pick for the main players (Jimmy Crankie has already been cast).
 
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