Who is in and who is out?

[lurker]

Me too.

Bob, the electorate has spoken, you have a clear mandate

 

[BearTricks]

Agreed.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

we could have a referendum on lock it or not LOL

Nah ... the wrong side'll win.

 

[woodpig]

Looks like he's gone on a tea break ... :lol:

 

[AJB Temple]

Interestingly most of my staff (we are not in the wood business) are between 19 and 32. All but one voted remain so they say and the sentiment today is that they feel betrayed by the older generation (I presume they mean grandparents). I have just got back home and had two young guys deliver about 3 tons of oak. They voted remain as well (they brought the subject up) and expressed similar sentiments along with a "we've just got to get on with it now" spirit and an expectation that a tough few years are ahead.

 

[Benchwayze]

Lock on Bob !

John

 

[RogerS]

Interestingly most of my staff (we are not in the wood business) are between 19 and 32. All but one voted remain so they say and the sentiment today is that they feel betrayed by the older generation (I presume they mean grandparents). .....

Just you wait. "Torch the Dusties' will be just around the corner anytime soon !

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Interestingly most of my staff (we are not in the wood business) are between 19 and 32. All but one voted remain so they say and the sentiment today is that they feel betrayed by the older generation (I presume they mean grandparents). .....

Just you wait. "Torch the Dusties' will be just around the corner anytime soon !

They used to say that age conferred wisdom. Or perhaps, feeling that they'd been lied to 40 years ago, they were not going to be conned twice. I know my 85 year old mum said as much. ("Common Market, we were told. Didn't turn out like that, did it? If those arrogant so-and-so's think they're going to pull the wool twice, they've got another think coming...")

 

[Noel]

Noel,

Sour grapes by the barrow load; totally self-centred sour grapes. And you call us insular!


To paraphrase Marie Antoinette, 'Then let them work in Britain, without taking a 'gap' year'.

Just as my grand daughter is doing, and is doing very nicely thank you.'
How it affects her remains to be seen, but whatever, I know she'll do what she always does, stick her chin out and get on with it.

Sour grapes? It's not a game, many lives will be adversely affected if this goes ahead, many firms will go to the wall and many people will lose their livelihood. You don't seem to appreciate or care about that. And why should anybody be forced to "work in Britain" when they want to work and live in the EU? And as for your grand daughter, great.....

Adam9453"]Noel that is overly dramatic.
There is little doubt that we are going to trade with Europe and even less doubt that trading in europe will require a level of acceptance to freedom of movement. Freedom of movement works both ways so i'd be very surprised if your children can't visit the eiffel tower.
As for your business, I can't comment because I don't know your business.
My business will be affected greatly because like AJB's brothers company, we import materials from Europe but produce mainly for the UK so will get the double whammy of higher import costs as described above. However I don't agree that it was the wrong decision to vote to leave.
I would not be surprised if other countries in the EU decide to hold referendums and if others follow our lead, then the playing field will change substantially.
The vote leave is not the beginning of the end, its the start of our future as an independent country.

What's dramatic about it? I trade in and within the EU. You really think nothing will change? You really think there'll be no restrictions? I can presently buy a car/machinery or whatever in Spain and sell it in Italy without restrictions. Do you realise how hard it would be to do that if I was an non EU resident? I suspect not. Treaty of Rome will hardly apply.
I sincerely hope your business has few or no employees if you think future trading is going to be difficult for you.

There are a lot of multi-nationals over here and I can't see them sticking around too long if they find themselve located outside the EU.

As mentioned in in other posts, many younger people here also feel betrayed by the older generation.

As Droogs mentioned if NI joined RoI, that in itself may not be the worst thing to happen but bear in mind that extreme violence akin to the 80s in more than likely a probability.

 

[chipmunk]

+1 for Noel's sentiments

My fear is that, contrary to what Gove et al said prior to the vote, the EU will seek to dissuade further potential "exiters" by penalizing the UK through trade tarrifs - After all, there are others contemplating similar decisions and it seems only natural IMHO for them to try to stop a complete break up.

Do you also think that HMRC will not move to introduce VAT on imported goods from Europe in line with those from the rest of the world?

 

[RogerS]

......
Do you also think that HMRC will not move to introduce VAT on imported goods from Europe in line with those from the rest of the world?

Oooohh...that's a good one ! =D>

Bet the Brexiteers didn't think of that one. Perhaps HMRC could be persuaded to have a two-tier system. If you voted Leave you pay VAT, if you voted Remain then you don't.

Noel has hit many of the impending issues squarely on the head and is spot on.

 

[graduate_owner]

So now that we have voted ourselves out of the EU, which is what UKIP was all about, what is the purpose of the UKIP party? Are they now completely irrelevant? That would be a smack in tne eye for NF - he gets what he's always campaigned for and the knock on effect is that he no longer has a purpose.

K

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Just got back in (from building a desk for my son). So should we lock?

 

[woodpig]

+1 for Noel's sentiments

My fear is that, contrary to what Gove et al said prior to the vote, the EU will seek to dissuade further potential "exiters" by penalizing the UK through trade tarrifs - After all, there are others contemplating similar decisions and it seems only natural IMHO for them to try to stop a complete break up.

Do you also think that HMRC will not move to introduce VAT on imported goods from Europe in line with those from the rest of the world?

I copied this from another source:

UK Government Official Trade figures for 2015 show:
UK exports to EU £223.3 billion (43.7%) Imports £291.1billion (53.1%) = Deficit £67.8 billion
UK exports to non EU £288.2 billion (56.3%) Imports £ 257.1 billion (46.9%) = Surplus £31.1 billion
The EU has a huge trade surplus with the UK and more EU jobs depend on the UK market than vice versa.
The EU needs to trade with the UK and isn't in a position to demand free movement of people.

If the French and Germans etc want to damage their own industries by being spiteful or stupid we can't stop them but it looks like they have more to lose.

 

[Adam9453]

You make very interesting points Noel but I think it's far too early to be so pessimistic about trade going forwards.
I think there will be challenging times ahead but we'll overcome them.
The employees also voted leave so we're all in it together if we got it wrong (only time will tell).
Despite the scare mongering during their campaigns, the world didn't implode today so I'm sure it will all settle down and we can get on with working through the challenges

 

[RogerS]

Just got back in (from building a desk for my son). So should we lock?

I think so. It's run it's course, and as I already posted, big thumbs up to the Mods for letting it run on.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Just got back in (from building a desk for my son). So should we lock?

Yes Please

 

[Noel]

Vat was always there, as long as it was accounted for somewhere in the EU, that may no longer be the case. As Roger mentions it would seem perfectly reasonable to charge an import tariff for goods entering the EU, as is the case now.
Buying tools from yer man in Germany will not be quite so attractive with import tax.

But the bigger picture needs to be looked at too. In GB there's many large corporations such as Nissan, Ford, Tata and Toyota to mention but a few who export a large proportion of their production to the EU. With the non-EU position and no trade agreements in place any time soon these manufacturers may eventually find themselves in relocation mood.

Locally to me we have Seagate, Dunbia (meat), Moy Park (chicken processing, biggest in Europe), quite a few call centres servicing Europe, Norbrooke (pharma) and many, many others that serve the EU. Many US based companies are also here simply because it offers access to the EU.

Agriculture is another issue, who will replace CAP? Anybody?

No doubt some arrangements will stay in place after any exit but long term, not looking so good.

And lastly, there was a lot of support here for Scotland remaining in the UK, ref #2 will be along soon and that will have a direct consequence for NI. Both countries voted to remain. Hard not to feel cheated.

No need yet to get the padlock out, all very civilised. Always the option not to look...

 

[Benchwayze]

Noel.

Don't forget that, with the right moves, and the right paperwork your children will be able to work anywhere they wish in the civilised world. It's just not going to be as easy as it was to just step across a border and seek work.

I know it's not a game. I voted in every election since I was old enough. Sometimes my party won sometimes it didn't. What I did have though was the opportunity to try and change a set of politicians that didn't do what I felt they ought to, or what they had promised to do.

With Europe, we were losing that right, and a bunch of arrogant, insulting strangers, non-elected and just appointed were setting the rules. . I happened to consider that wasn't a game either, so this time I decided to try and win back that right. Does that make me stupid, childish, senile, or 'numbnutted' as one person classified us old 'uns? I don't think it does. I call it principled TBH. We WERE lied to in the 70s, and Heath admitted such, because he knew that to give us all the full 'monte', he would never get it through. That was close to something I suspected then and voted NO. With the huge turnout, I also suspected interference with the vote, but I couldn't really see how it would have been done.

I apologise if I seemed blunt and to the point, but at the end of the day, that's how I see things after an election or referendum.
Whilst I empathise with you and your family, I am afraid like everyone else, they have to accept things as they stand and get on with it. Like it or lump it.

 

[Noel]

Noel.

Don't forget that, with the right moves, and the right paperwork your children will be able to work anywhere they wish in the civilised world. It's just not going to be as easy as it was to just step across a border and seek work.

I know it's not a game. I voted in every election since I was old enough. Sometimes my party won sometimes it didn't. What I did have though was the opportunity to try and change a set of politicians that didn't do what I felt they ought to, or what they had promised to do.

With Europe, we were losing that right, and a bunch of arrogant, insulting strangers, non-elected and just appointed were setting the rules. . I happened to consider that wasn't a game either, so this time I decided to try and win back that right. Does that make me stupid, childish, senile, or 'numbnutted' as one person classified us old 'uns? I don't think it does. I call it principled TBH. We WERE lied to in the 70s, and Heath admitted such, because he knew that to give us all the full 'monte', he would never get it through. That was close to something I suspected then and voted NO. With the huge turnout, I also suspected interference with the vote, but I couldn't really see how it would have been done.

I apologise if I seemed blunt and to the point, but at the end of the day, that's how I see things after an election or referendum.
Whilst I empathise with you and your family, I am afraid like everyone else, they have to accept things as they stand and get on with it. Like it or lump it.

Off course you had the right to vote as you please, that I would defend for ever and a day. But the younger generation is the future and they feel betrayed. They couldn't care less about Heath, Rippon et al. In a different century, a different life as far as they are concerned and perhaps rightly so.
Another thought, I wonder just how much the English leavers wanted to get some sort of revenge on Cameron/Osborne for UK government's austerity measures as well?