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Phil, on behalf of the forum, please accept our apologies for misuse of the term disabled. I have no idea if any offence was intended by the poster but it's unacceptable and wont be tolerated under any circumstances and howsoever justified. The person responsible has been banned.
 
morfa":6orw3x0n said:
Cheshirechappie":6orw3x0n said:
That does raise some interesting questions. For example, why are we incapable of training enough of our own medical staff? What gives us the right to go about other countries poaching their trained (presumably at great expense) best people? Do Spain, Ireland and Greece have a surplus of good medics they don't need, or are we taking staff their populations really could do with? If they have trained a surplus, how come they're so much better at training enough people than we are?

1 - Complex and not easily answered properly, but in a couple of lines, it's hard just to get in to a Doctor course (excellent grades and work experience needed) and expensive (5 years degree) at a cost of £9k per year plus standard uni expenses. After 2008 some training positions were cut and it takes a long time to train a nurse or doctor. The number of complex (eg heart problem and diabetic) patients needing the NHS is increasing, especially older patients, though the increase in obese people in the population in general doesn't help, so more Nurses/Doctors are needed. Then also there's a portion of Drs (not massive) who come through the training, qualify but can't cope with the workload / don't want to cope with the workload, so leave. Finally where we need doctors (and nurses) are often the places where it's hardest so people either don't go into it or don't stay there. eg A&E, Nights (especially Nights).

2 - No right, but they come here cause the money is good.

3 - They don't have a surplus. Other countries have the same problem as we do, however we pay well and the NHS is highly regarded internationally. Also the UK standard of living is high compared to other countries. Which is why there's a reasonable number of Filipino Nurses in the NHS.

4 - No surplus, we're stealing their medical staff.
I think the 'we're stealing their medical staff' is a bit strong! Yes the NHS actively recruits in other countries but that's because they can't get the staff here.

UK medical training used to be regarded as some of the best in the world and the HNS was an excellent training ground before moving on.

This country can't even recruit and train nurses! Beds are closed due to a lack of staff and now they want to take bursaries away from student nurses which means they'll accumulate debt before they even start 'proper' work. I know this is no different from 'standard' students but if we need nurses we need to consider some 'perks' to ease the process.
 
Random Orbital Bob":2pxew64b said:
Phil, on behalf of the forum, please accept our apologies for misuse of the term disabled. I have no idea if any offence was intended by the poster but it's unacceptable and wont be tolerated under any circumstances and howsoever justified. The person responsible has been banned.

He has used the term 'disabled' to describe himself, although I have no idea if the post you refer to was intended as a derogatory remark.
 
Jacob":265vtvhx said:
Rhossydd":265vtvhx said:
Benchwayze":265vtvhx said:
I don't know first hand what Phil and Heimlaga experience, but I accept they are closer to it than I.
Really ?
Phil.p & heimlaga against jacob ?
A disabled retiree living in a deprived area at the fringe of the UK and someone living in a remote part of rural Finland who talks about the Mafia ?
As opposed to someone working in the UK who actually travels around the UK, Europe and talks to people, someone who is actually identifiable and prepared to put his real name to what he says.

I know who I trust.
Thanks for that Rhossydd!
Actually my "dusty little hamlet" (Benchwayze) is distinctly post industrial and has a lot in common with Cornwall. It was tin there, here was lead, limestone, fluorspar and coal not far away. The industrial revolution started about a mile away with Arkwrights mill. Sheffield is just up the road. A large part of the population of Britain lives within 50 miles or so. It does seem a very central place, historically and currently.

Okay Jacob. You live in a fairly large town and a civilised part of the country, so if I upset you by having a go at your corner of England I apolgise. Your area is one of the most beautiful areas of the UK of course, but topography and geology aside, you can't really know the social problems of an area unless you live there a spell. (Walk a mile in their shoes, and all that, yeah?) At least you'll be a mile further from them and you'll have their shoes! Doesn't alter what I said. There were folk in the 40s who didn't know half of what was going on just across the channel. Just as today there are those who are ignorant for the same reeasons; they were isolated from it all.

As for Phil and Hiemlaga's posts, I am certainly not anti immigration, but there are eggs of all kinds in a basket, and when I hear things from the horse's mouth, so to speak, I tend to take things on trust, even though I was a 'cynical Copper'. If I hadn't been willing to take some things on trust, I would have been a hypocrite every time I took the oath. For that reason, I took Phil and Hiemlaga at their word.

Finally if I have something to say to you m'man, I will say it from the shoulder; just like you do.


Pax.

Regards
John Walker
 
MIGNAL":35me0n10 said:
Random Orbital Bob":35me0n10 said:
Phil, on behalf of the forum, please accept our apologies for misuse of the term disabled. I have no idea if any offence was intended by the poster but it's unacceptable and wont be tolerated under any circumstances and howsoever justified. The person responsible has been banned.

He has used the term 'disabled' to describe himself, although I have no idea if the post you refer to was intended as a derogatory remark.
In defence of a question you asked him Mignal - about why he had so much time on his hands. So I agree, he's described himself as disabled a few times and in that particular instance as "retired and disabled".
 
MIGNAL":lbmystrl said:
Random Orbital Bob":lbmystrl said:
Phil, on behalf of the forum, please accept our apologies for misuse of the term disabled. I have no idea if any offence was intended by the poster but it's unacceptable and wont be tolerated under any circumstances and howsoever justified. The person responsible has been banned.

He has used the term 'disabled' to describe himself, although I have no idea if the post you refer to was intended as a derogatory remark.

Just using the word can get you into an awful lot of trouble these days, even if the person isn't offended.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/discr ... ate-crime/
 
MIGNAL":375qp5kx said:
Random Orbital Bob":375qp5kx said:
Phil, on behalf of the forum, please accept our apologies for misuse of the term disabled. I have no idea if any offence was intended by the poster but it's unacceptable and wont be tolerated under any circumstances and howsoever justified. The person responsible has been banned.

He has used the term 'disabled' to describe himself, although I have no idea if the post you refer to was intended as a derogatory remark.

I'm not interested in ANY wriggle room on this. I don't care how it's justified and even if Phil doesn't find it offensive. I find it offensive. In fact I find it incredibly offensive because of what it implies. The issue is waaaay beyond just Phil and there are no circumstances in which I will allow a comment like that to remain published. Disabled people have a difficult enough time without being stereotyped, judged or in any way commented upon in a way which draws attention to their condition.
 
Rhossydd":131q8d8n said:
RogerS":131q8d8n said:
When you say 'huge' do you have any numbers ?
Obviously no absolute numbers as I don't think that data is ever collected.
I've worked in hospitals, know people who work in the NHS and been a patient; Talk to them and ask them. They'll often tell you that they're here for the better opportunities to further their careers and return home better qualified.
It's far, far more complex than they're just here for the money.

I know that as well as you do. However, my post is equally valid and based on my conversations with clinicians. Some are just here for the money because of the dire economic situations in their own countries.
 
Rhossydd, just apologise, I don't want to lose allies.

Benchwayze, you may notice that all of us here, who are relaxed about immigration, except Jacob, actually live in the places with the most immigrants, this is also reflected in the brexit election and practically noone votes UKIP in london. Here we've got used to people coming from all over the world. Romanians are our neighbours and kids school friends, along with Africans, Jamaicans, Indians, other Europeans, Chinese etc. In these circumstances one learns to judge people by the content of their character not by Daily Mai scare stories
 
Paddy Roxburgh":116igyum said:
Rhossydd, just apologise, I don't want to lose allies.

Benchwayze, you may notice that all of us here, who are relaxed about immigration, except Jacob, actually live in the places with the most immigrants, this is also reflected in the brexit election and practically noone votes UKIP in london. Here we've got used to people coming from all over the world. Romanians are our neighbours and kids school friends, along with Africans, Jamaicans, Indians, other Europeans, Chinese etc. In these circumstances one learns to judge people by the content of their character not by Daily Mai scare stories
We have immigrants in the village and large numbers close by in surrounding towns - Derby particularly. We are relaxed about immigrants! In fact I like them. I've just come back from the dentist and he is an immigrant, probably muslim.
I cycle a lot on local trails which are popular with townies who come out and hire bikes. Sometimes large groups of "immigrants" (i.e. non white) come pedalling along, obviously having a good time. Even saw a group of women wearing hijabs and laughing like drains!
Pleased to see them.
 
Sounds like Malax in Finland where I live, I dropped my kids off at daycare and I think there must be at least 5 different languages spoken there by the kids since their parents come from all over, 10% of the population have come from elsewhere to this little rural place (the common language is swedish). My own kids are not yet three years old but understand swedish, vietnamese, and english most recently after they learned to use youtube on their moms ipad.

Daniel keeps going around naming things in english, then swedish. He knows almost all the colors now.
 
I'd be very surprised if anyone on this forum lived in a more deprived area than I. Only myself to blame, the fault of choosing craft over being a NASA scientist. :wink:
I had to laugh when someone recently stopped me in the street to complain about all the number of E. European shops that had sprung up on the main road. There are an awful lot. Unfortunately I had to point out to her that the shops were better open rather than boarded up with graffiti sloshed all over the shuttering. Many had not been open for decades. It now actually looks as though there is some economic activity, as opposed to rather depressing neglect, despondency and hopelessness.
 
Paddy Roxburgh

Please go to page 104 of this thread and read my post there, about immigration.
I defended Hiemlaga and Phil.p because I am not naive, and I do appreciate bad eggs can be found in any basket. I had no reason to disbelieve those two members, so I expressed how I felt, regardless of the fact I am also 'relaxed' about immigration.
So again, please read my post on page 104.

John
 
:wink: mih tog yllaniF. !aH .tiab eht egnahc ,ni leer tuo tsac , ni leer tuo tsaC
 
Benchwayze":iypdji98 said:
Paddy Roxburgh

Please go to page 104 of this thread and read my post there, about immigration.
I defended Hiemlaga and Phil.p because I am not naive, and I do appreciate bad eggs can be found in any basket. I had no reason to disbelieve those two members, so I expressed how I felt, regardless of the fact I am also 'relaxed' about immigration.
So again, please read my post on page 104.

John

John, I've read that , I wrote you a long reply on the same page, I understand that you are absolutely not a racist and am greatly heartened by that fact.
 
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