Who is in and who is out?

[RogerS]

Is it eu money? It could be argued it is UK money that the eu has chosen to invest in the uk, without us choosing. Its a bit like me giving £5 to somebody and saying keep some of it, then buy something for me with the rest.

How you choose to misinterpret the information is up to you.
What I was pointing out is that if we're stupid enough to leave the EU there will still be big subsidies available for the multi-nationals to move into mainland Europe from the EU and many will. Attracting new inward investment into the UK will cost UK tax payers much more and be less attractive to the potential investors outside the EU.

The only people saying it won't be a financial nightmare are Brexiters promising things they can't deliver and saying we have to make optimistic projections. It's too much like buying a lottery ticket, you might just win, but the overwhelming probability is that you will lose.

Not necessarily so. You are ignoring the fact that at the moment the UK has its hands tied (under EU draconian rules) in terms of what it can/can't do to attract inward investment and/or support companies with state investment. Ditch the EU and we can foster and grow and attract inward investment to our hearts content. WE are actually then in control of our destiny and no longer under the yoke of a bureaucratic federal authority. Unfettered by petty-fogging EU diktats the UK economy can grow faster.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I suppose I should be thankful the EU in its benevolence has decided to subsidise half my local roundabouts.
If you look through the lists of pro's and discount the ones who are beneficiaries of EU munificence (in one way or another) you could discount half - I wouldn't expect them to say any differently.

 

[Inoffthered]

Woodmonkey...I would suggest that that list has been chosen by David Cameron as it is so clearly skewed.

It also contains a large number who were using the same scare tactics about what would happen if we didn't join the Euro.

A notable omission from the list was Neil Kinnock who has £10 million reasons for wanting to Remain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ecide.html

 

[Claymore]

Osborne and Cameron should be booted out of their jobs before the vote for basically intimidating voters by blackmailing them regarding the so-called emergency budget. How disgusting to even suggest they will slash the NHS budget and benefits/pensions etc if the British public vote to leave the EU, my 84yr old father in law is not well like many of our elderly and disabled and he is terrified they are going to cut his pension after hearing Cameron on TV recently saying that "We may have to lower the state pension so we can spread the cost over more people" ..and basically saying that the elderly are living too long! 99% of the British elderly have paid into their pension funds and NHS for many years not forgetting fought in wars to ensure the British people are safe and now they treat them like a burden to society and for that alone I will vote to LEAVE the EU.
I have watched my father in laws health go downhill in recent months and for the first time in his life he is on medication for anxiety/depression which the GP has confirmed is due to him worrying about austerity cuts.
Personally I think if Cameron and Osborne are so keen to keep us in the EU that they will resort to blackmailing the sick/poor/elderly and disabled then its obvious its to protect their own pockets and not for the good of the nation.
Its got to be a Brexit vote for me.

 

[RobinBHM]

Someone posted this up on Facebook today, says it all really....

A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That silly person that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

I think if one cant be bothered to research the facts but want to pick a list of influential people wanting to Brexit and a list to remain then a 2 minute google search shows rather more than the joke Brexit list above:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-1 ... -creates-w

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referendum- ... ve-1545548

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/655650 ... e-campaign

One example of a serious figure in business campaigning to leave:
'Vote Leave also announced that the former director general of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC), John Longworth, will take up a new role with the group as chairman of its business council.'

On the other hand both Simon Cowell and Jeremy Clackson want to remain........

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The National Union of Students and the Church of England want in? That's me out, then.

 

[RogerS]

I think that after 36 pages, a Vote of Thanks to the Mods is definitely due for letting us discuss this =D>

 

[RobinBHM]

I think that after 36 pages, a Vote of Thanks to the Mods is definitely due for letting us discuss this =D>

I second that

Also many thanks to everybody who has spent time contributing, on all sides of the argument.

 

[lurker]

Its been fairly good natured

Even though "you know who" did his best to start a fight

 

[Eric The Viking]

The Remain campaign could learn a few things from this forum (and thread, probably).

Today we got a personally addressed poster/leaflet through the post, that basically said, "Don't let Farage decide your future."

Arguments of that quality will sway millions. I wouldn't like to guess in which direction though.

And thanks to the mods from over here, too.

E.

PS: Of course it could actually be a spoiler from the Brexit camp, but I don't think so.

 

[Inoffthered]

At least we haven't sunk to Bob Geldof's depths.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/15/remai ... qus_thread

The fishing industry has every right to be upset at what the EU has done to them and for a peaceful protest to met with such boorish behaviour from the multimillionaire Bob Geldoff speaks volumes.

 

[Claymore]

Geldof what a joke he is and always will be.

Who's next Bono or will he be busy distancing himself from deceased mps? maybe Clooney and Pitt? my moneys on Jedward

 

[dynax]

I for one will be voting out, mainly before the idiots in Brussels bring out a fart tax, and make us wear catalytic converters when we're in a public place, it's bad enough now with the missus asking if her bum looks big in this,

 

[fred55]

I'm still on the fence - my sons girlfriend is Polish; I rent out properties the Polish and north Europe, They mix in with society (pubs clubs socials churches) and generally they are better people than some of our own low life. I need a third option - reduce benefits to all - if you don't work don't expect a house - child benefits stops at 3 children - benefits should not be high enough to afford sky plus, mobiles, holidays in Spain, designer clothes and don't even think about a car. I'm a changed man and after 40 years for Labour now anybody rather than Labour.

 

[will1983]

I have just read through the full 36 pages of excellent well researched discussion and I'm impressed that such an evocotive subject hasn't spiralled into sillyiness and unpleasentness.

As a personal matter of interest I did a rough tot up of peoples opinions expressed in this thread. I count it as 25 leave to 10 remain. However as someone previously suggested I think the actual result will be very close as a large number of people seem to be undecided so may just "play it safe" and remain.

For what it is worth I have already voted to leave.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Guido has a view on the "nine-out-of-ten economists vote for insanity" thing:

http://order-order.com/2016/06/09/only- ... se-brexit/

Apparently it's been another exercise in how to lie with statistics. Sad really.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

This'll persuade you to stay -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16UW8Rls2vE

 

[Eric The Viking]

Outstanding.

The Remain supporter in the household gets home from Hungary tomorrow. I'll send her the link, pronto.

She's utterly compelling, so much so you wonder if it's intended ironically.

 

[Rhossydd]

Interesting to read a view point from a well respected overseas newspaper to see how others see this referendum choice:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

 

[stuartpaul]

Guido has a view on the "nine-out-of-ten economists vote for insanity" thing:

http://order-order.com/2016/06/09/only- ... se-brexit/

Apparently it's been another exercise in how to lie with statistics. Sad really.

Eric, - that really does depend how you interpret it doesn't it? How do you account for those who didn't respond?

To the best of my knowledge its not common practice with polls to include non respondents in either side of the argument.