What's happened to some of our more illustrious posters?

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houtslager wrote
I was one of the first in the old forum , all those years ago, and then we had a decent Sunday evening chat and decent mods.

Lately, I have been to busy too post, but I did keep my eye on the ball quite often. Yet, the old spirit of the first forum seems to me to be some what deminished {sp} I am sad to say it, but I will continue this action as I am totally non PC, and say it as I see it which often gets me into hot water in the real world.
Whilst I am sure you are correct, there is a danger of living in the past with rose tinted glasses, things change and go up and down. I haven't been here that long but I have seen many new members who have become part of the community and forming new friendships all the time. As you say you haven't involved yourself too much lately, so interact more and you may find you can restore what you find missing :) I trust this will be taken in good spirit etc.
I feel unable to comment on the specifics of the thread because I can add no value but I am sorry that Jacob has been banned again, hopefully these things can be resolved by negotiation.
Alan
 
Although my mod duties are confined to the peace and tranquility of the Scrolling Board, I do have an insight into the thoughts of the rest of the mod team and what they are doing behind the scenes. In many ways, this gives me a wonderful opportunity to run with the fox and hunt with the hounds.

As far as I know, Mr Grimsdale was not banned because of anything he posted in the open forum which led to an argument with another moderator. Indeed, I cannot recall a moderator ever abusing his privileged position against a member by taking reprisals for a disagreement over woodworking techniques. Whenever such a dispute has arisen, it has usually involved breaches of forum rules too. In such cases, it has usually been another moderator who has dealt with the dispute and disciplinary action has usually only been taken after private correspondence has been exchanged. Hmmm... there's a lot of 'usually's in that paragraph :) . Nevertheless, although circumstances have sometimes dictated a divergence from that procedure, it has been the normal way business has been conducted.

Lately, the mod team team has recognised its unpopularity and has been deliberately applying a lighter touch. Threads such as this one would have been unthinkable a couple of months ago. If members feel this forum no longer meets their needs or that its management is making them uncomfortable, it's their prerogative to look for other forums. Heck, I'd be looking at other forums too if I felt that way :) ! However, I hope the wiser members will reflect on how disputatious threads are increasingly being allowed to run their course. The mod team recognises that most members of this forum are mature adults who can conduct their own affairs and resent being told otherwise by some official. Where there has been the potential for members to regulate their own heated debates, the mods have lately been doing their best not to intervene. Personally, I think the forum's a better place for it.

Although this thread seems to have developed into an attack on the mod team, it also demonstrates that members care enough about the forum to ask uncomfortable questions. I'm sure many of those questions will be answered in due course; although many members will either be satisfied with the answers that are given or at least accept that an unpleasant decision had to be taken, some won't . Frankly, there's an aspect of this affair which leaves a nasty taste in my mouth but I've known Charley and the other mods for a long time and at times like this it's easy to overlook the sterling work they do on behalf of this forum. Often, the general membership isn't even aware of the hard work that's going on behind the scenes.

It would help enormously if everyone would try to be a little less judgmental until Charley explains the situation insofar as he is able to do so without compromising aspects of private correspondence. In the meantime, I hope I've been able to explain that the mod team recognises a lighter touch on this forum is needed... and is learning how to apply one :lol: ! As with all learning processes, there's going to be mistakes but they are trying to cater for the needs of the members that have been expressed here and in similar threads, moving away from regulation towards facilitation. Until lately, the mod team seems to have felt the membership was incapable of regulating itself decorously and that regulation had to be imposed. However, forums change and techniques which might have been appropriate in the past may become obsolete. The mod team seems to feel it would be in the best interests of the forum to move towards greater self-regulation. However, that will only work if the members demonstrate their willingness to co-operate.

Gill (Now, where's my tin helmet... haven't used it for ages...)
 
Just a few thoughts on the subject - the pro's aren't the only ones who provide input and answers to us more inexperienced members, their input is valuable yes, but it's not the be all and end all of this forum. For example, Bugbear, Alf, MarcW Woodbloke and mayn others are all excellent providers of solutions and conversation.

Also, it's the hobbyists and amateurs that fill the general discussions with like minded input and usually it's the amateurs that fill the projects forum which stimulates a lot of idea's and discussion. This forum's success is not solely down to the input of one specific demographic of members but a combination of both.

It's all a mix, and despite issues lately, this still remains the best forum of it's type for this country. I even prefer it to the other national forums such as sawmill creek, woodnet etc..

Lets get a little perspective. We are all in this forum together and have equal importance, I would not put Jacob up on a pedastal no matter how useful some of his points sometimes are nor would I any single member of this forum, it's the mix of people that make it great, hence the many mini-bashes that went on this year.

I've frequented many forums over the years and moderated and owned a few myself, and I can say without a doubt this is one of the best run.
 
ByronBlack":2tyf27vz said:
This forum's success is not solely down to the input of one specific demographic of members but a combination of both.

Byron, you put that much better than me =D> =D> but thats what I was trying to say.

I love the "look at this hidiously expensive plane I bought" threads, but I also like the "if you have the skill you can do just as well with a Anant (spp?)" angle too.
 
Gill":1ttb8fjq said:
(Now, where's my tin helmet... haven't used it for ages...)

Leave it off! , Gill, you haven't got time to start going back in the bunker :lol:

Thanks for the input.
 
Here here Byron.

It sounds like the reason for Jacob being banned was PM based. So to pre-judge the Mods before the facts are known is quite unfair. I would suspect that only Charley has the power to ban members as it is usually an administrator's job.

I think the members who posted personal attacks on the mods particularly on Tony should apologise. It must have been very difficult and hurtful for Tony to switch on his computer this morning and find his name dragged through the dirt. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he left. (Please don't Tony)

Please remember that moderation is a difficult job. Anyone in a position of power and responsibility will have to make unpopular decisions, whether it be deleting posts or giving warnings. I hope that the membership would realise this and give the mods a break.

As Byron says, to put Jacob on a pedestal above other members is just plain ridiculous. We are all equal here and as such should all be treated with the same respect. From what I read of Jacob's posts, this was something he was incapable of doing.

My 2p's worth.
 
Gill, thankyou for your post, which was very well thought out. I hate to see anyone banned but recognise that it may be necessary on occasion. To comment without knowing all the facts is not appropriate.
 
Slimjim81":1u04o901 said:
I would suspect that only Charley has the power to ban members as it is usually an administrator's job.

You are correct. It was not a moderator that banned him nor as far as I know instigated by a moderator either.

But feel free to continue your attacks and singling out of individuals without the full facts - what do I care, I've just sent my resignation in as moderator, which although it was for completely different reasons was definately spurred on after reading this thread.

Whilst you continue your sabre rattling and personal attacks, just stop, and remember, why theprevious forum that many frequented died? Anyone remember? Well I do. Once the moderators reduced in numbers, the majority of threads turned into personal spats, arguments of irrelevant minute of detail, spam, commercial advertising, off topic threads, people who weren't prepared to accept other methods and techniques we equally valid etc etc.

No doubt many of you will have had a PM from me, tidying up your posts (particularly URLs), deleting repeats etc, but more likely, discussing why its important to concentrate on the topic, help new members, think about their question from their point of view (often answering out-of-context to the question such as use a shaper as an answer for a noobie), leaving threads which you are not actually contributing too simply becuase you think its a waste of time etc etc. So actually sometime moderating is a case of helping individuals to see where they sit in the forum, and how their answers can go a long way to helping (or throwing a topic), depending on the original poster of the question.

Adam
 
Hi Adam

Adam":3d7heefm said:
I've just sent my resignation in as moderator, which although it was for completely different reasons was definately spurred on after reading this thread.

Thank you for all of the work that you have put in to help make this forum successful. I'm sorry to see you resign, but wish you and your family all the very best for the future.

Neil
 
I'm sorry to hear that Adam, but to be honest, I don't blame you. The mods can't seem to do right for doing wrong!
 
Instead of everyone deciding which side to take before the facts, perhaps in the interests of the forum it might be a good idea to temporarily lock this thread until we have the Official Position? Then we can take sides...

And yes, I remember exactly what happened to the other forum; I consider what you list were just the symptoms. The cause was sufficiently similar to what we seem to have now to make me extremely unhappy and concerned. (I'll wish you the best and thanks after I see if you get your resignation to stick with Charley... :wink: )

Cheers, Alf
 
Alf":3pl0sl39 said:
perhaps in the interests of the forum it might be a good idea to temporarily lock this thread until we have the Official Position?

Alf, sensible suggestion, but it would probably just be construed as 'nanny state moderating' as someone put it. :roll:
 
First I would like to publicly apologise to the moderators and the members for not replying to this thread sooner, it seems to have kicked off without anyone knowing the facts. It was my decision to ban Jacob and I'll explain why in a second. As the moderators are more active on the forums then me they seem to get all the stick when all they are trying to do is keep everyone happy so I'd appreciate if you can show them some respect.

For those of you who aren't aware, Jacob was recently reinstated on the forms after a months ban due to another issue. It came to my attention yesterday that Jacob sent out spam PM's which I find is unacceptable and is why I banned him.

If you're not happy with him being banned then please don't take it out on the moderators, it was my decision - so moan at me :)

Our moderating methods have been criticised recently. Some of you don't realise that the forums have been running for years now and our moderation policy has worked fine. However I do agree we need to change it and improve in some areas. In the past couple of weeks I've been preparing for some changes which will allow the moderators to take a step back. Theses changes should be active early next week...

I'm busy today so won't be able to check in on the forum much so if you have any questions please email me...
 
Simon wrote:

I think the members who posted personal attacks on the mods particularly on Tony should apologise.

Assuming you include me, then no, I mean't what I said.

Ike
 
Charley":1hjy95b4 said:
For those of you who aren't aware, Jacob was recently reinstated on the forms after a months ban due to another issue. It came to my attention yesterday that Jacob sent out spam PM's which I find is unacceptable and is why I banned him.

I believe I was one of the recipients of the 'alleged' spam PM. The one I'm thinking of refers to another group. If is is this one, then how would you feel about me publishing it on the open forum, with Jacob's permsision of course.

That way people can asses for themselves whether they think Jacob's ban is reasonable?

If the one I have is not the one in question then I won't comment further on this.

Regards
Mike
 
Can someone point out to me which rule Jacob broke, please? I can't find it. The nearest I can find is in the generic pphBB FAQ but that would firstly require the PMs to be emails, then to be considered either as abusive or spam, and subsequently reported as such by a recipient to the administrator.

I recieved Jacob's PM and from it gather that he only sent it because he'd been threatened with being banned for some other infringement. Could we know what that other infringement was supposed to be, please? And the moderator involved?

Alf
 
Alf":1qmq5qph said:
Can someone point out to me which rule Jacob broke, please? I can't find it. The nearest I can find is in the generic pphBB FAQ but that would firstly require the PMs to be emails, then to be considered either as abusive or spam, and subsequently reported as such by a recipient to the administrator.

I recieved Jacob's PM and from it gather that he only sent it because he'd been threatened with being banned for some other infringement. Could we know what that other infringement was supposed to be, please? And the moderator involved?

Alf

Alf,

It seems that the PM you got is the same one as I got and that it has been classed as spam. It would also appear that it is being used as the reason for Jacob's ban.

There may of course be another message that I don't know about and it might be truly serious, but if the message that you and I received was the one that got him banned then someone has really lost the plot!

Mike
 
Charley":3d8y151k said:
Our moderating methods have been criticised recently. Some of you don't realise that the forums have been running for years now and our moderation policy has worked fine.

The style changed over those years and has become much more dictatorial recently, with some moderators (in my view) not being dispassionate about their moderating role. As a consequence, my perception is there has not been a clear separation between (at least certain) moderator's personal likes and dislikes of the views and personalities of certain members, and their actions as both moderators and posters.
 
Jacobs PM never mentioned anything about being threatened of being banned. I also think it's a bit of a cheek with him setting up a group using exactly the same name as this forum, if he or anyone is unhappy on the forum - why not speak to the people directly instead of turning it into public slagging match (without knowing all the facts) and setting up rival groups etc.. I just don't see the logic.

If people want to run off because they feel the forum is going down the pan, well that'll just speed things up, and then what happens to the next forum when the same thing happens? - that'll go belly up as well and so on and so on.

I'm sure despite anyones grievences with individual members, we have all to a member benefited greatly from this forum, and I feel a little loyalty isn't too much to ask.

But then i'll probably just be labelled as 'one of them' and shot down in flames. So be it.
 
I do agree Byron. Ultimately I am so grateful to the members of this forum who's help, information and patience over the years has encouraged me to do many WW related things. I still find this an inspirational place and spend far too much time here (even atm when i'm supposed to be painting :( ;) ).

However, even after Charley's explanation, I still find Jacob's ban harsh. I'm not putting Jacob on any pedestal, I just think it could have been dealt with in a much more grown up way.

Did Jacob set up that Yahoo group? If he did i'm sure he isn't planning some sort of WW forum domination. Looks like he's just using it as a place to chat to his sympathisers.
 
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