What annoys you about Norm?

[Alf]

In a spirit of fairness, I re-watched a bit of my Norm video last night. The four episodes seem to vary quite a bit in age, and I think the number of "glue and a coupla brads" incidents is reduced in the later one, so maybe he's improved beyond all recognition by now. And I suppose there is a tradition of using brads to apply a moulding. But Norm, why, oh why would you put them on the crown of the moulding when there are fillets and rebates a plenty to hide the brad in? Anyway, it crystalised exactly what bugs me. There's altogether too much skipping of the details. Yep, I know, limited time etc etc. S'pose I can sum it up as "Inspiration, not education". It's got a place, of course it has, and lots of you wouldn't be here without him (bless you for that, Norm), but it bugs the heck out of me that it's all about the result and not the process. Heck, he takes all the fun out of woodworking.

Cheers, Alf

 

[cambournepete]

I too voted for finishing - he does spoil his work quite a lot then but we don't have to use the same finish as he does.

The thing that makes me cringe is when he's on a lathe - he might get the results he wants, but his technique with a gouge is dreadful and he uses far too much sandpaper.

That said, I find him inspirational and he definitely rekindled my interest in wood working.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[Philly]

Actually Folks, I think you've all just pointed out what makes Norm so watchable!
When watching the show, regardless of your level of "expertise", you find yourself saying "I would do it better/different to to the way He's doing it!". Yes, you are encouraged to have a go, maybe doing things "better", safer or just plain "the way you like to do things"!
And isn't that what a TV show should be inspiring you to do?
Regards
Philly

 

[Nigel]

There ought to be an option of non of the above as what annoys me is the programe is not on screen often enough

I completly agree with Philly as it was Norm who got me interested in woodwork and I can take as much or as little from his programe as I please including the finishing (they do have some weird ideas over there)

Nigel

 

[mahking51]

I'm with DaveL here; love the show but don't like his constant use of 'finish nails' on trim and stuff that is going to show. Even when filled you will still see the holes.
Rest of show is great value and informative.
Martin

 

[J.A.S]

I don't think that many of us would deny that Norm is inspirational; doubtless, he has caused many to enter the world of woodworking, many, perhaps, who otherwise would not have. For that, my hat's off to him.

However, that very inspiration might well also be his weakness: I suspect that many who have been encouraged by his programme are left believing that one needs to have an array of eye-wateringly expensive machines in order to embrace this wonderful hobby of ours. That, I think, is a shame.

On the personal level, there are things that do just annoy me: that bloody nail gun is top of the list. A close second is his frequent obliteration of decent timber with stains, or, worse, a slap of paint. Yet, the time constraints of filming might well represent a decent defence. Nonetheless, I don't see why he can't demonstrate different ways of producing similar projects: not in the same programme, perhaps, but certainly in other programmes.

Anyway, even with his faults, I'd rather watch Norm than the thousandth, brain-fogging, house-buying/selling excuse for a programme.

JS

 

[Guest]

I think that what are missing here is the fact that the show is broadcast for entertainment. Of course many of his methods can be challenged but to a complete begginer,as I was when I first saw the program, he does show methods that are achievable, or at least appear achievable. He helped me through a difficult time following a serious op and I will always have a soft spot for him. Now that I have a little more knowledge I can decide how I want to do something but without Norm's inspiration I would probably be sat on my backside for much of the day.

 

[gidon]

Hi all

I'm afraid I'm not having much time to read or respond to the wonderful posts on the forum at the moment (wonder why!!) But have to have a go on this one!

First of all well said Philly .

I can't really vote on any of the choices - we have to remember the premise of the show: to reproduce a piece of furniture in 1 to 2 days start to finish using mainly power tools - single handedly. So if he uses a nailgun for example - there is usually good reason. His finishing often gets a lot of criticism - I'm not sure why: he tries lots of different techniques and only has a few minutes to describe how it's done. They could leave this bit off completely - but they never do - he's always shown applying his choice of finish. This is personal but I like the look of most of the things he makes too.

If I was hard pushed to criticise anything I do agree with Alf:

His amazing ability to use an unsafe machinery situation that'd take ages to set up to do a cut that'd take 30 seconds with a chisel/saw.

But then again - as I mentioned above - he is meant to be making the piece with power tools. And using a repeatable and accurate method. Hard to do with hand tools. And although he does now have some pretty impressive machinery, most of the stuff his does requires the tools that most posters here have (substitute router for dado head). And you could (cheekily) argue that he manages without thousands of pounds worth of expensive hand planes!!

I could go on ... but that'll do for now . I'll try and catch up with the 1000's of posts I've pretty much missed - but doubt I'll be too successful!

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Chris Knight]

Norm is God, or at least one of his lieutenants. He has inspired millions of woodworkers and if it weren't for him getting people started, I bet a pound to a penny there would be no Cliftons, LNs or Sauer and Steiners for people to buy.

I don't really understand the prejudice against nails either. Sure he uses nails where other fixing methods could be employed but so what? Might as well argue against using glue. At least nails are a mechanical fixing that have proven themselves over thousands of years http://www.primesourcebp.com/nail_overview.asp which is more than you can say for PVA.

 

[Anonymous]

Norm is God, or at least one of his lieutenants. He has inspired millions of woodworkers and if it weren't for him getting people started, I bet a pound to a penny there would be no Cliftons, LNs or Sauer and Steiners for people to buy.

I don't really understand the prejudice against nails either. Sure he uses nails where other fixing methods could be employed but so what? Might as well argue against using glue.

Yes!! Spot on Chris.

Although I'm sure a good argument could be made for not using glue or nails!! :wink: Who's willing to have a go at that one then?

 

[bg]

The essence of good old Norms programs for me was actually the fact he did use power tools and machines for everything, which seemed to take the drudgery out of woodworking. My previous memories of furniture woodworking was way back when at school when we had all of a couple of hours a week on the subject. I remember the tedium of cutting mortises for my small table project with a chisel. I’m sure I took many weeks just to thump out the mortises for the four legs and I distinctly remember it as a right old chore. And now here was Norm slicing out a mortise on a mortise drill in a few minutes and cutting perfect dovetails using a jig. Well I could do that too I thought, and indeed so I can.

So more power tools to the Norm elbow. I have to say, like Norm, I don’t make so much use of chisels and hand planes, and rather consider I’ve failed if my joints don’t fit straight out of the M/T jig and require bit of correction. Right now, being a relative newbie, I would have to admit that my spending on power tools outstrips the value of anything I’ve made (and I haven’t got a unisaw or a wide belt sanding monstrosity yet!), but I don’t suppose the amateurs amongst us are doing woodwork for pecuniary reasons and I’ve only got to make a couple of really classy sideboards to be quits. I’m very sure for some the joy of creating some furniture with hand tools will be their raison detra, some will have learnt from Norm and moved on, but I’m still on the starting blocks. I’m not intending to get a dado saw (choosing to take the advise of some on this forum), and do use molding glue instead of brads, but I find I do not get peeved in the slightest if I see Norm furrow out a rebate quicker than McDonalds cook a burger. So for the likes of me, dear Norm’s nailgun hits the brad squarely on the crewcut.

 

[Bean]

Right then tony here goes

PVA Glue Alchemy

Nails Primitive Iron Alchemy


Will that do ........... only I'm a bit tired :roll:

Bean

 

[Midnight]

Personally. I'm not votin for a damn thing... the methods you use in your shop and tools you use to execute them are a matter for personal choice; I'm no more qualified to pour scorn on his choices than anyone else here..

I've found through years of watchin him (back in the days when ya could watch him) that over time he frequently demonstrated a range of alternative methods for making the same joint, each using different tools, jigs and methods.. Near as I can tell, the one thing that hasn't changed is his way of putting across the point that with a few basic tools, some care and patience, you could turn your hand to this rather than stay sat on yer backside just thinking about it... lord knows I'm proof o that...

Between his project episodes, his books and his plans he has no equal in demonstrating how straight forward can be; you're gonna be hard pushed to find a better...

Granted, there's methods I choose to use that are different; that's not necessarily better, just different.. When I can achieve results like his I'll consider myself qualified to put him down... not before hand....

 

[Anonymous]

Personally. I'm not votin for a damn thing... Granted, there's methods I choose to use that are different; that's not necessarily better, just different.. When I can achieve results like his I'll consider myself qualified to put him down... not before hand....

You are missing the point of the poll it is not their to make fun of his techniques or put him down in any way it is their for you to vote and then describe how you do it differently if you read the opening statement it clearly states 'how would you do it differently' as knowledge is power and if i or anyone else can pick up tips from the likes of yourself on how to do something differently then that can only be a good thing.

Derek.

 

[Travis Byrne]

What annoys you about Norm?

Nothing----------------------------------!!!!!!

Travis

 

[Martin]

Here's my top Norm annoyances...

(1) His big workshop. Bigger than my bl**dy house! (but I confess, this is pure jealousy)

(2) His propensity to use his lathe duplicator too much - you know, the thing that does it almost automatically by following a hardboard template (although that seems to have improved with the new series - far more real turning from him, which is a definite improvement).

 

[Noel]

Well, if we ever get the 05 series he's doing a "Lathe Masterclass" episode. Let us know how it goes Travis.

Noel

 

[Drew]

My one quibble about Norm is his use of colour finishes that would make a glass eye water. He goes to all the trouble of producing something in wood, it looks great and then what does he do he paints it so the natural beauty of the piece is no longer on show.

But apart from that he is the number one. When I saw NYW for the first time it made me realise what I had missed since coming of the tools. It also made me realise that I could set up a small workshop with powertools as well as my handtools and really start enjoying my woodworking again. Also indirectly it was his show that led to me being cast ashore in this place with the biggest bunch of woodworking reprobates it has been my pleasure to have asked advice from.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers guys

Drew

 

[Signal]

While I agree with the finishing issue the thing that seems a lot of you forget is that a lot of the times he is duplicating an original piece. More often than not these pieces are painted or stained.

The odd thing I have seen him make from scratch has generally been finished with danish oil

Just my tuppence worth :wink:

Signal

wow, not a single word spelt wrong, must be getting good at the spulling malarky

 

[Woodythepecker]

He may annoy some people, buts lets look at the facts:

He has done well over a 1000 shows, whats that a show once a week for 19 or 20 years continually. Thats some record.

Yet look at the other woodworking shows on H&L Cutting Edge Woodworker, The Workshop John Built, Smith & Sweetman, The Great British Woodshop, and another from John Revell Johns Workshop. These are lucky if they have made 50 or 60 shows between them.

When you think that Norm was a on site carpenter when his first show aired, and that this is where he did most of his work, he has not done bad.
He hasn't even been to collage to be trained as a furniture maker and his title as a Master Carpenter is just that a title, he is not a master carpenter, because there is no such thing in the US.

Annoy people maybe but we still love him.

Regards

Woody