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I'm curious about your fairer distribution. How would you measure a person's needs or their worth to society.
The press recently reported on a lay about who has fathered 15 offspring, with another on the way, that he pays no support for nor sees very frequently.
He lives on benefits.
Surely fairness would require that he cease his life style.
I find it extraordinary that a working parent, a retiree etc should support this person, I won't say 'man,' in any manner what so ever, or do you think that a fairer distribution should perhaps exclude him?
Mind you, I'm still attempting to recover from the idea that our EU bosses are intelligent! :lol:

Roy.
 
Digit":2wmr4034 said:
I'm curious about your fairer distribution. How would you measure a person's needs or their worth to society....
Roy.
Pleased to see you have started to think about these things. It's never too late!
 
Pleased to see you have started to think about these things. It's never too late!

What makes you think I have just started? Also that is yet another demonstration by your good self of attempting to deflect the question, so what about an answer?
After all, it's never too late!

Roy.
 
Jacob":3iiw5kat said:
RogerS":3iiw5kat said:
.....
So answer the question, Jacob. How much of your wealth are you prepared to give up? As far as I am aware there are only the two of you and yet, unless I am mistaken you live in a very large property that you are doing up. If you 'walked the talk' then you would move out into a two bed semi somewhere and let a very large family live where you are currently.
Actually it's barely habitable so far!
I'm happy to vote for governments which would bring about a fairer distribution, particularly if curbing excess wealth with big marginal rates. I realise this could disadvantage me in the short term but it would be good for all, including me, in the long term. Nothing radical about that - taxation and redistribution is the basis of all civilised countries at the moment.
I'd vote for civilisation but I'm not planning to set up a socialistic republic with just me in it!

Well weaselled, Jacob.

Your reply confirms what we've always thought. You're a Champagne Socialist at heart. Either that or a bit if a hypocrite. Take your pick.
 
RogerS":3eyyoeqh said:
You're a Champagne Socialist at heart.

Sounds good to me although I would prefer it with the smoked salmon were it not for the Blair connotations.

It is not mandatory to be a whippet racing, pigeon fancying, wife beating drunkard in order to hold some view of social responsibility.

Anyway back to the original post. According to this mornings papers Clegg is already walking backwards from his bosom buddy.

How long, how long?
 
What do those north of the border think about the Euro, surely they don't want to join a failed currency and then in addition hand over all their powers of taxation to Brussels if they went independent?


Afterall the euro is a failed currency otherwise they would not have had their conference this week, they are in the mire, or is it shuuuuuuuuuuush
 
This mornings press says it far better than I can.

"A step towards irrelevance" seems about the most appropriate.

The so-called coalition will henceforth function purely as a survival cell for the inmates.

The interests of the country have been trashed.

I'm off to do some woodwork, at least they can't take that away.
 
Modernist":3cmlx3ov said:
This mornings press says it far better than I can.

"A step towards irrelevance" seems about the most appropriate.

The so-called coalition will henceforth function purely as a survival cell for the inmates.

The interests of the country have been trashed.

I'm off to do some woodwork, at least they can't take that away.


Yes they will, EU wil ban use of any timbers not coming from Europe and replaceable.
 
devonwoody":2xkhjx7o said:
What do those north of the border think about the Euro, surely they don't want to join a failed currency and then in addition hand over all their powers of taxation to Brussels if they went independent?

The SNP have still time to wait and see what happens before the vote is cast to the Scottish electorate, that is why the delayed it and that is why the others want it now. Irony is to gain independence on one hand only to go join the EU to hand it over once again. It was sold for gold the last time through bribes to the nobility, the people who will benefit may have changed but there will be winners in this decision, it only needs concluded who they are. As a Scot with natural leanings to look after the vulnerable or look to being fair to my fellow Scot I hope it is the people.

As a small independent nation I feel Norway is a good example for us to take lead from though the standard of life is good the living cost are high, a trade off. We as a nation have a greater manufacturing base or culture with good natural resources but we do share similarities in respect of fishing/oil. I await more proof what I will vote, a lot of water has to flow under this particular bridge.

I do not wish to be part of the UK that has as a priority to be a leading part of NATO and lead from the front as per DC statement recently what trade of was this to be a leader in Euro decisions, no we will take everyone to war oir be a leading voice in a group that has no natural enemies left as most are in the EU or is DC going to find new ones, a total waste of more loss of lives and spending monies we do not have. I am still aghast we can spend money easily bombing Libya or supply money to despots, purchase third world countries funding for weapons, corruption of aid or Islamic countries that persecute Christians with foreign aid from our tax payments, all done in our name. While our own country cannot even supply pensions to all Private or Public or look after the workers who have worked all their lives and at time of need are left to free fall. Or according to Govt they should have looked after it themselves with a private pension, our state pension is not even the same as a minimum wage. Very pious to take in taxation and meet your living needs but when you cannot pay your way get a paltry living standard to utilise for the last part of your life. The list goes on and on, we would rather spend money on Olympics/Commonwealth games and World Cups, what folly is this that leads us to these conclusions. Popularity decisions are solely to deflect bad decisions or govt who are bereft of ideas.

I am to old to emigrate so is going independent a way to solve issues above, jury is still out ask me in a couple of years when the present turmoil is settled in Europe and UK part it plays in the way forward. But can it be any worse is the question or is it better to stand on your own feet and agree on what we believe is right not to be led by others who have no standing or divided from what makes me a Scot. Politics in Scotland are totally different from what the Tory values are, they failed to move with this and paid the price at the elections. As stated before Scots if asked or asked to vote look after those who need others help we look at the vulnerable and you may feel its socialist but it is what makes us Scots. It makes us stand out and goes to answer why Scots have shaped a lot of new nations being formed. The treaty of Arbroath still reverberates and is still got relevance now, a pity people cannot live up to the words, we would be all the better for it if each nation wrote it in their nations goals.
 
I still cannot believe if taxation you have to pay is decided in Brussels the Scottish people would want that.

And if you are wealthy because of your oil deposits etc. Brussels will eventually level a higher tax on your nation and countries like Roumania most probably would have a lower tax rate.Like all good socialists principals.
 
As I said is EU an option we want. I would rather be a small independent nation doing what our populace wants for the betterment of the whole. EU sticks in my craw a bit and the taxation given to them to have a good old gravy chain grates as well, Scots thrift comes to the fore here. I do not mind having a trading agreement or agreement on issues like diplomacy. But for legal/financial/regulations I would like to remain in my "ain midden"

As a very small country why would we wish to govern others, we would be best serving as a voice of opinion or Scots slant on things. EU would benefit and we have past history doing this with France/Prussia/Poland/Sweden and even Russia.

But time will tell what is the way forward and after all the electorate will decide.
 
devonwoody":3b4p6n0y said:
Modernist":3b4p6n0y said:
This mornings press says it far better than I can.

"A step towards irrelevance" seems about the most appropriate.

The so-called coalition will henceforth function purely as a survival cell for the inmates.

The interests of the country have been trashed.

I'm off to do some woodwork, at least they can't take that away.


Yes they will, EU wil ban use of any timbers not coming from Europe and replaceable.

Doubt it. We have Cites for that. Further, the EU is more 'liberal' than the US in this regard. Google 'Lacey act' to see what all the fuss is about.
 
It is not mandatory to be a whippet racing, pigeon fancying, wife beating drunkard in order to hold some view of social responsibility.

Thank God! I'm in the clear!

Roy.
 
Losos":2pblzxwi said:
RogerS":2pblzxwi said:
So answer the question, Jacob. How much of your wealth are you prepared to give up?

Don't think you'll ever get an answer to that one Roger :)
I answered it further back. I'm quite happy to vote (and campaign) for a left leaning party even though it might mean me having to pay out in higher taxes etc.
I'm not particularly calling for noble acts of self sacrifice - but if you feel the urge don't let us hold you back!
Death duties is a good one - you only pay after you are dead!
 
RogerS":3izvheky said:
Jacob":3izvheky said:
RogerS":3izvheky said:
.....
So answer the question, Jacob. How much of your wealth are you prepared to give up? As far as I am aware there are only the two of you and yet, unless I am mistaken you live in a very large property that you are doing up. If you 'walked the talk' then you would move out into a two bed semi somewhere and let a very large family live where you are currently.
Actually it's barely habitable so far!
I'm happy to vote for governments which would bring about a fairer distribution, particularly if curbing excess wealth with big marginal rates. I realise this could disadvantage me in the short term but it would be good for all, including me, in the long term. Nothing radical about that - taxation and redistribution is the basis of all civilised countries at the moment.
I'd vote for civilisation but I'm not planning to set up a socialistic republic with just me in it!

Well weaselled, Jacob.

Your reply confirms what we've always thought. You're a Champagne Socialist at heart. Either that or a bit if a hypocrite. Take your pick.
Neither. Silly argument anyway.
You don't have to renounce all worldly goods to be a socialist you just have to agree to distribute them in a fairer and more co-operative way. Vows of poverty aren't in any party manifestos, as far as I know.
 
Death duties is a good one - you only pay after you are dead!

Wrong again Jacob. Your son and daughter will pay it! If there was a way of making us pay taxes after death the Inland Revenue would have found it!

Roy.
 
Digit":19057pik said:
I'm curious about your fairer distribution. How would you measure a person's needs or their worth to society.
The press recently reported on a lay about who has fathered 15 offspring, with another on the way, that he pays no support for nor sees very frequently.
He lives on benefits.

Roy.
Daily Mail, by any chance?
If true, the above character is one of the spongers who society can do without. I suggest he goes out and gets one of the many jobs available. :) But we also have many other types on non-contributing spongers to sort out too: many of whom are very, very wealthy.

I wonder how much is lost to the Exchequer in benefit fraud, compared to evaded taxes?
Cameron reckons about £5.2 bn. year, so a mere fraction of un-collected taxes. Maybe he needs to re-consider his priorities?
 
Daily Mail, by any chance?

Why do you ask?
But as I always attempt to answer questions put to me, I'll reply. No!
He also states that he has an interest in the Church and is following the Biblical diktat of 'go forth and multiply!'
I agee with him.

Roy.
 
I understand that Croatia joined the EU yesterday......
They claim that history has been made.....
Yep! The only known case of Rats rushing to join a sinking ship! :lol:

Roy.
 
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