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I have a lot of time for Robert Peston's viewpoints and recommend that you read his latest blog entry here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16109444.

There is also a strong inference to suggest that anyone who adopts the standard and very blinkered standpoint of 'Dave Cameron and his city mates' take note of Robert Peston's comments towards the end where it is clearly evident that David Cameron actually wanted stronger regulation and control of the finance sector.... a little point overlooked, perhaps, by the naysayers.
 
Yep! Brit banks got their fingers burnt in the American sub-prime market, if sufficient control had been exercised this would not have happened, same with the injudicious lending to dodgy customers like Greece, who by the way have previous on defaulting on their debts, now when banks are more cautious with their customer's money people have a go at them for being more stringent in their conditions.
It's a strange old world.

Roy.
 
I have to agree with the commentator this morning who equated Cameron's move with refusing to board the Titanic for its maiden voyage...
 
Personally I have never had any faith in the European Union nor the Euro as both were formulated for the wrong reasons. I think the best we can hope for now is an orderly disengagement.

Roy.
 
The position now taken by DC/UK Govt has some relevant points for the future.

1. DC feels the main issue is that UK is not got the euro currency so should have no part in the decision of this currency, this is understandable
2. Failure to follow the other possible 26 countries in economic union will mean no power or voice in this treaty or direction. This is fair enough but the issue I see for DC was to protect the financial sector in UK. So without voice in this 26 union how does he prevent anything being carried out in taxation of financial transactions or how the future of the financial sector is regulated in the new Euro 26. So he has not prevented anything in this respect as far as I see it. Was this just to look good to his Right wing of his party or solely to prevent a vote by the the public on change, politicians of all persuasions do not like the public to decide anything it never gives them what they want.
3. Failure to join the 26, DC feels that the EC administration cannot be operated or utilised to administer the new Finance alliance. This was rebuffed by the EC President later who seems totally agreeable to police this new union needs, more civil servants and more budget why would he not agree and all the union but one are agreeing to use the EC. Does this make UK position redundant in future, with the objections here or there and veto's when does the 26 see UK as a thorn worth pulling or rejecting from European Parliament totally just to get rid of the irksome relative.
4. Which takes me on to the last alluded in the last bit when does the UK withdraw totally as the only way DC will get aims of border controls, City Finance sector protection and Legal appeals fully devolved back to UK parliament.
5. How does the Eire sit with this choice, they export or rely on imports and financial support from UK, we will need to see how this pans out, I can see their decision as being between a rock and hard place rather than sensible.
6. The German economy since the Euro was setup has benefited from the rates of finance due to the Euro club being so varied and the amalgamation of all economies. With the benefits enjoyed by Germany why should they not now finance recovery of the other nations. I do accept their point that Greece and the like position they find themselves was by bad management but Germany exports and manufacturing benefited greatly during this period and the German Govt let it happen.
6. Greece will not be in the Euro by all accounts, so it may be less than 26 joining.
7. This group of 26 have not enough bail out money from the 26 members to avoid a crash and the European Bank will not lend as I read it, so Italy/Greece/Portugal/Spain ands possible Eire and France could be all turkeys voting for Xmas.

The cost of being in and isolated means that in the long term UK will need to look to other areas of the world for exports. We currently average 40% of our trade to Europe. Norway are not doing to bad being in isolation so to speak, and I do feel our sovereignty of our fishing and coastal waters is worth revisiting to EEC meddling and other countries using our waters. But the UK economy is not like Norway and the manufacturing sector could have issues ahead as a lot of investment in this country was to access the Euro market.

So myself I personally would not mind being part of the EEC, I have felt the EEC is in some ways best described like the voting in the Euro-vision Song Contest. Over the years we as a nation have taken the German mantle of being less liked or less agreed with due to how we see or portray ourselves and the wars we get involved. Sometimes its being the American poodle that did not sit well with fellow euro govts. But in reality if they fix the Euro and fix the finance problems of certain nations within the 26 and a big if. Where does the future of the UK sit. Minus the payments we make to the EEC will the resulting isolation be to the betterment of the UK. The City is like all business people, where the cash goes they go and with new IT links who or why do they need to be in London. I do not feel the card supporting the City DC thought was right will be benificial to the UK in the long term. But history will be the judge.
 
I'm a bit simplistic about this whole issue (lazy really) and it comes down to whether or not I want my destiny in the hands if this lot below, or in partnership with Europe.

cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg
 
The way I see it is if the Euro fails, DC made the correct decision.

If the Euro excels he made the incorrect decision.

Simple isnt it?

Remember it has failed because the conference had to be called, so they are now trying a second time to do this again, which reminds me of their referendums when they get a no vote, they have another and it suddenly becomes a yes vote, very fishy to me.
Let birds of a feather flock together springs to mind for me.
 
Would the flat caps do any better Jacob me old class warrior?
But returning to Ally, I agree with you, but what bothers me about the EU is this.
Now correct if I am wrong all you pros but does it not require the agreement of all member nations to introduce a new treaty under the EU constitution?
If that is so then the 24/ 26 whatever cannot leagaly ignore HMG, will that stop them?
As Eliza Doolittle stated, 'not bloody likely!' The French in particular have always shown a degre of ambivalence towards any rules that conflict with their own self interests, and the German iron fist has been visible since the Greek non-referendum.
Do I want to be part of that club?
See Eliza Doolittle!

Roy.
 
Both missed the point.
The alternative isn't flat caps or layabouts - it's a civilised and intelligent European parliament running things a lot better than the little gang of public-school twerps we have in power here.
 
Jacob":jhqt0vhl said:
Both missed the point.
The alternative isn't flat caps or layabouts - it's a civilised and intelligent European parliament running things a lot better than the little gang of public-school twerps we have in power here.


But those europeans are not honest people. think referendums again.
 
Theres Jacob on the right, working class and glad of it :mrgreen:

imagesCAN0K6RF.jpg


wake up Jacob, the worlds moved on :roll:
 

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So far all the counter examples are an attractive alternative to the bullingdon club boys (except Blair - he's one of them but Fettes not Eton). Wallace or Anne Widdecombe? It's a no brainer!

But Europe is (relatively) classless. Actually so is Wales and Scotland. The Bullngdon boys are a particularly English disease!
 
Jacob":1h4uujth said:
a civilised and intelligent European parliament running things a lot better than the little gang of public-school twerps we have in power here.

Nice dream, pity about the reality!

Given the current state of European politics, I'll take our own public-school twerps over theirs any day
 
Jacob":o64ubl1f said:
Both missed the point.
The alternative isn't flat caps or layabouts - it's a civilised and intelligent European parliament running things a lot better than the little gang of public-school twerps we have in power here.
Nonsense, the Parliament don't run *anything*, they're just a talking-shop to fool us peasants into feeling we have a little bit of a say in things. The real power lies with the Commission, who are all appointees - no taint of democracy there. At least the Bullingdon club types were actually elected - unlike, for instance, the the current Italian prime minister...
 
So much for Italian democracy though. . . the present one just has to be an improvement over that corrupt Clown.
 
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