UK Benchdogs on a traditional Bench

[peterw3035]

I'm in the process of building a traditional bench, basically following Robert Lang's 21st Century workbench design to allow it to be dismantled. I'm making it from some freely acquired Ekki an exceptionally hard & heavy hardwood so it will have a 45mm thick top.
I have a face and tail vice ready to fit but before I start drilling holes has anyone used the 20mm range of MFT products from benchdogs.co.uk rather than the more traditional 3/4" fittings, such as holdfasts, planing stop etc?
My next project will be an MFT bench so want to avoid expensive duplication.

 

[Distinterior]

Just be aware that some of the clamps and methods for clamping the dogs in place, wont work with a thicker top.
They are mainly designed to be used with an 18mm thick top.....!

 

[peterw3035]

Thanks, that's obvious now you've pointed it out !!
I've been getting too distracted by the mass of bench hardware options.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I have been through this recently myself and now have a 19mm / 3/4" and a 20mm system according to my benches. I did want one system but they just do different things. The one exception was a Hongdui clamp (looks a bit like a Veritas version but much better) that can quickly bounce between 20mm MFT and 3/4" thick hardwood top without compromise. Looks expensive but it brilliant and worth the money, I will be buying more. Chinese manufacture at it's best doing originals and not copies.

https://uk.banggood.com/HONGDUI-SC-...clyCFuCet4w48wahX6tClgMGvOAsTRBEaAuo3EALw_wcB
Denis at Hooked on Wood reviewed it which is where I came across it.

 

[peterw3035]

Hi Nic, that's good I thought I was the only person thinking that way. The Hongdui clamp looks interesting.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I have wasted so many hours on this problem.... I would be interested in other devices that can do both quickly...

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have been taking work bench design and construction today with this weeks students, I recommend using 19mm 3/4" holes for a wood working bench's as so many bits of it are available for them by many manufacturers.

20mm is the correct size for MFT tables but they are set up for cutting square etc.

I don't think many bits of kit can fit in both, our Armor dog clamp comes with a 19mm bar but a 20mm bar is an optional extra.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/armor-tool-auto-adjust-horizontal-dog-clamp-p7-hh/
Cheers

Peter

 

[Sideways]

Whichever way you go, try your method of making holes and your chosen dogs in a piece of scrap first. That way you won't wreck a good piece of wood that's expensive to replace.

I like bench dogs to be a proper snug fit. I use the parf guide for boring the holes. I tried the nice veritas stainless steel dogs in those holes and they were way to sloppy so they had to go back. I've others that have a machining tolerance closer to 20mm and work great.

 

[Jacob]

Trad British benches tend to have just one dog/stop near the left hand end. Typically 30mm square hardwood say 6" long knocked into a hole, raised by knocking up from below. As it gets battered you just plane a bit more off. All you need really - other holdings easily improvised for each occasion, just drill another hole if you need a holdfast etc - no need to go dog crazy!
Steel should be avoided - you will chip a plane blade eventually.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I'm in the process of building a traditional bench, basically following Robert Lang's 21st Century workbench design to allow it to be dismantled. I'm making it from some freely acquired Ekki an exceptionally hard & heavy hardwood so it will have a 45mm thick top.
I have a face and tail vice ready to fit but before I start drilling holes has anyone used the 20mm range of MFT products from benchdogs.co.uk rather than the more traditional 3/4" fittings, such as holdfasts, planing stop etc?
My next project will be an MFT bench so want to avoid expensive duplication.

View attachment 152325

Peter, if you intention is to use your work bench for hand tools, then I would be thinking along more traditional lines and give it 3/4” dog holes. The thicker top adds both mass and isolation from vibration when doing heavy work, such as planing and chopping. The better hold downs, such as Gramercy and Veritas, use a 3/4” hole. Plus, you do not want to drill too many holes. Square, wood dogs along the front apron is important for edge planing connected to a tail vice, as well as a few selected positions in the middle of the bench. Think of this as a dedicated hand tool bench - what makes it so is the mass and vices. The 3 3/4” thick top is not suited to short MFT dogs (which benefit from being secured from below).

I recently added a MFT as well and, while this is pretty heavy and can be used for hand tool, it is not the best in this regard, and becomes the power tool bench (routing, sanding and, when needed, sawing (I have a table saw). I like it especially for the multiple dog holes for holding small and irregular work pieces. This has 20mm holes, routed with a template. Yes, so it duplicates some “dogs”, but the work is different, and the type of dogs used specifically aid in this regard. As Jacob pointed out, these steel dogs are not ideal for hand planes. The thinner 25mm top is not suited for the longer, hand tool orientated hold downs. Horses for courses.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[david_1]

Peter, if you intention is to use your work bench for hand tools, then I would be thinking along more traditional lines and give it 3/4” dog holes. The thicker top adds both mass and isolation from vibration when doing heavy work, such as planing and chopping. The better hold downs, such as Gramercy and Veritas, use a 3/4” hole. Plus, you do not want to drill too many holes. Square, wood dogs along the front apron is important for edge planing connected to a tail vice, as well as a few selected positions in the middle of the bench. Think of this as a dedicated hand tool bench - what makes it so is the mass and vices. The 3 3/4” thick top is not suited to short MFT dogs (which benefit from being secured from below).

View attachment 152365


I recently added a MFT as well and, while this is pretty heavy and can be used for hand tool, it is not the best in this regard, and becomes the power tool bench (routing, sanding and, when needed, sawing (I have a table saw). I like it especially for the multiple dog holes for holding small and irregular work pieces. This has 20mm holes, routed with a template. Yes, so it duplicates some “dogs”, but the work is different, and the type of dogs used specifically aid in this regard. As Jacob pointed out, these steel dogs are not ideal for hand planes. The thinner 25mm top is not suited for the longer, hand tool orientated hold downs. Horses for courses.

View attachment 152361

View attachment 152362

Regards from Perth

Derek

That is very useful thank Derek - I am building up a MFT setup and knowing that both benches are different and can't do everything is a useful reminder. I am building up a modern 19mm MFT but also making a series of interconnecting modular workstations on casters using the same grid system. I notice none of my ideas cover heavy hand work however....

 

[peterw3035]

@david_1 if you haven't seen have a look at The Woodcrafter here

Andy Guile built a solid workbench with MFT panels inset into the top. I did consider this but went more traditional, with future plans for a separate MFT.

 

[naughtymoose]

As others have said above, two different systems seems to be the way to go.
I have UJK stuff for my MFT-style thing and also some Armor Tool clamps from Peter Sefton' Woodworker's Workshop, but with the 20mm posts.
I plan to use the Armor Tool clamps on my "proper" bench (starting the build within the month!) but with the supplied 3/4" posts.