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Noel

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Not necessarily anything directly to do with the list mentioned but here's what you can currently do:

Set up a business.
Register for VAT.
Register as self employed
Register for self assessment (income tax)

Assuming you have a reasonable business that trades and takes money at good profit from customers or even rips off every customer that goes near you, you can continue doing so for 12-18 months keeping all the VAT and not paying income tax before closing down, starting a new project or whatever.
There is simply not enough safeguards or staff at HMRC to police the system effectively.

The other end of the scale, and totally legally, is to pay tax on 150 odd million of profit at 2% or so, get a few bad headlines for a day or so and do it all again the following business year.

The money laundering capital of the world that is London, and increasingly other UK cities, is a another story in itself.
 

Trevanion

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Noel":140jlq3g said:
Assuming you have a reasonable business that trades and takes money at good profit from customers or even rips off every customer that goes near you, you can continue doing so for 12-18 months keeping all the VAT and not paying income tax before closing down, starting a new project or whatever.
Happens too often! There are a few around here now that are known for "dipping" and nobody wants anything to do with them anymore as on top of not paying the VAT and income tax they also don't pay their bills to anyone they've bought stuff off such as builders merchants. Start company > Get jobs > Buy all stuff needed > Do Job > Get Paid > Crash the company > Repeat step one.
 

sammy.se

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Garno":1pe1v3ug said:
I didn't even know lists like these existed.

Deliberate tax avoiders



.
Very interesting. I didn't know they did this either.

Just as a side note on terminology:
Tax avoidance: legal (using loopholes and mechanisms to avoid paying tax)
Tax evasion: illegal, like setting up fake accounts etc
Tax planning: legal, not seen as exploitative, e.g. using ISA
Tax fraud: like evasion.

I don't pay any attention to all these news stories about companies not paying tax. If it's legal, it's legal. Change the laws.
However, some MPs benefit from these avoidance schemes either directly or indirectly, so they won't vote for change.

I hope to see a level playing field for everyone, in law!, not just rhetoric.



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Trainee neophyte

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Given that money is created out of thin air, why do we all have to pay tax? There is absolutely no need for it - the government could just create sufficient new money to pay for required services, and provided they didn't go mad, it wouldn't be inflationary. Obviously, they would go mad and print like there was no tomorrow, because that's what they do, but it is no different to quantitative easing, or the bank of England buying government debt, or other weird, devious schemes that make printing free money look less devious.

They even use tax to increase or decrease the money supply, so as to manage the economy. Why bother? When money= gold, taxes made sense, but now it is all take funny munny, taxes seem somewhat archaic.

Think of all those jobs no longer needed - Inland revenue closed forever. =D>
 

RobinBHM

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Trainee neophyte":3e8khpav said:
Given that money is created out of thin air, why do we all have to pay tax? There is absolutely no need for it - the government could just create sufficient new money to pay for required services, and provided they didn't go mad, it wouldn't be inflationary. Obviously, they would go mad and print like there was no tomorrow, because that's what they do, but it is no different to quantitative easing, or the bank of England buying government debt, or other weird, devious schemes that make printing free money look less devious.

They even use tax to increase or decrease the money supply, so as to manage the economy. Why bother? When money= gold, taxes made sense, but now it is all take funny munny, taxes seem somewhat archaic.

Think of all those jobs no longer needed - Inland revenue closed forever. =D>
The cleverist tax is land value tax.........it could replace every single other tax and tax evasion isnt possible.

Too good to be true? -in theory its is based on sound economics, in practice it means redistribution of wealth and that can never be allowed.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I wonder what Ms Collette Mary Mahwhinney 5 - 7 Bridge Street, Bangor, Co Down,
BT20 5AW 6 Apr 2010 to 30 Sep 2017 £485,554.15 £212,429.90 was selling in her take away? :D

Or what Robertas Cesonis Fork Lift Driver Karciupis 16, Kaisiadoriu Raj, Lithuania,
56327 28 Sep 2017 £826,246.00 £495,747.00 was shifting with his forklift? :D
 

Garno

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phil.p":1kax7u04 said:
I wonder what Ms Collette Mary Mahwhinney 5 - 7 Bridge Street, Bangor, Co Down,
BT20 5AW 6 Apr 2010 to 30 Sep 2017 £485,554.15 £212,429.90 was selling in her take away? :D

Or what Robertas Cesonis Fork Lift Driver Karciupis 16, Kaisiadoriu Raj, Lithuania,
56327 28 Sep 2017 £826,246.00 £495,747.00 was shifting with his forklift? :D

I spotted that one as well,

Notice how many Chinese Esellers there are? :shock:

Makes for some addictive reading :D
 

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RobinBHM":sei62sdf said:
Trainee neophyte":sei62sdf said:
Given that money is created out of thin air, why do we all have to pay tax? There is absolutely no need for it - the government could just create sufficient new money to pay for required services, and provided they didn't go mad, it wouldn't be inflationary. Obviously, they would go mad and print like there was no tomorrow, because that's what they do, but it is no different to quantitative easing, or the bank of England buying government debt, or other weird, devious schemes that make printing free money look less devious.

They even use tax to increase or decrease the money supply, so as to manage the economy. Why bother? When money= gold, taxes made sense, but now it is all take funny munny, taxes seem somewhat archaic.

Think of all those jobs no longer needed - Inland revenue closed forever. =D>
The cleverist tax is land value tax.........it could replace every single other tax and tax evasion isnt possible.

Too good to be true? -in theory its is based on sound economics, in practice it means redistribution of wealth and that can never be allowed.
Land/property tax means that your land/property is no longer yours - you are just renting it from the government. See how long you get to continue "owning" your land/property if you don't pay the tax. Government has a monopoly on violence, and extract money from people with the threat of violence if they don't pay. Government is just a successful maffia with a good marketing division.

Are we in danger of turning this into the BBC Rant thread? I do hope not. #-o
 

Garno

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Personally I think that the only thing wrong with HMRC publishing lists like these is that not many people know about them. Makes you wonder how many other lists are out there, maybe there is one listing the people who don't bother turning up for doctor/dental/hospital appointments.
 

Cheshirechappie

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thetyreman":nk0sumzc said:
you forgot to mention the royal family, worst tax evaders in history...
Not true.

If the income from the Crown Estates are regarded as the Royal Family's gross income and the Civil List their net income, they probably pay the highest marginal tax rate of anybody in the country. That's because the Crown Estate receipts pass to the public purse, and the Civil List is merely the return of some of it to cover their costs. (NB - I think that excludes the Prince of Wales, who is funded by the income from the Duchy of Cornwall.)

If you think the royals are leeches on the public these days, do some research on the tax expropriation activities of the Mediaeval monarchs, and on why the English Civil Wars happened.
 

RogerS

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RobinBHM":oiqqpm4c said:
.....
.....-in theory its is based on sound economics,
No, it isn't. Think about it. If you put a land tax on then who is going to be able to afford to buy the land that people will now be wanting to get rid of ? Suddenly that land has zero value.

or do you mean a tax on gardens ? Allotments ?

RobinBHM":oiqqpm4c said:
in practice it means redistribution of wealth ....
I think this one was tongue-in-cheek. But I'll bite. Again, it doesn't... see above. Besides redistribution of wealth - apart from giving the virtue-signallers a feeling of revenge (even though many of them couldn't start up a business to generate wealth for paying taxes, staff wages to save their lives...hard graft is not in their vocabulary..too busy complaining about perceived slights)....I digress...

Redistribution of wealth.. great idea if it was all in cash but much of it isn't. Paintings. Yachts. You start redistributing those and the prices will crash/ So no wealth to redistribute. Besides, I've already spent my £0.56 share.

If you really want to do something to improve the general 'lot' then legalise and give free supply of drugs. At a stroke, a huge swathe of crime will disappear benefiting society as a whole. I'm not alone in thinking this....

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2057
 

treeturner123

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Hi

Personally, I'd like to see an end of VAT and the introduction of a 'Sales Tax'. This would hopefully start to deal with the biggest tax avoiders namely Amazon, Google etc.

However, as usual, it must be stated that there is nothing that any human creates that another can't find a way of circumventing (well almost)

Phil
 

Garno

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treeturner123":9omx0p3f said:
Hi

Personally, I'd like to see an end of VAT and the introduction of a 'Sales Tax'. This would hopefully start to deal with the biggest tax avoiders namely Amazon, Google etc.

However, as usual, it must be stated that there is nothing that any human creates that another can't find a way of circumventing (well almost)

Phil

It would be nice if VAT was ended but not sure what it could be replaced with.
 

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Cheshirechappie":2n9iusaq said:
That's because the Crown Estate receipts pass to the public purse
I read something about this very recently and the Queen gets 25% and the rest goes to the public purse.
 

Jacob

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Garno":1ake0100 said:
...
It would be nice if VAT was ended but not sure what it could be replaced with.
We had "purchase tax" until 1973, before VAT.
It was a variously rated tax on "luxury" goods rather than virtually everything and had evolved from wartime needs. It was applied at source of supply (the maker or wholesaler) not at point of sale so far fewer had to deal with it.
Highest wartime rate was 100% (added on to wholesale price) but generally was 33 1/3 to 25%.
It was fairer in that it discriminated between essentials and various luxuries.
There was no gross turnover limit so every supplier had to pay it. We'd started our tiny first business in our living room in Nottingham in 1969. Purchase tax man would call on us and have a cup of tea every three months, in between calling on John Players, Raleigh, Boots etc. They had their accounts better sorted so he didn't have to spend as long with them!
 

nabs

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treeturner123":2tasp9j5 said:
Hi

Personally, I'd like to see an end of VAT and the introduction of a 'Sales Tax'. This would hopefully start to deal with the biggest tax avoiders namely Amazon, Google etc.

However, as usual, it must be stated that there is nothing that any human creates that another can't find a way of circumventing (well almost)

Phil
eh? VAT and Sales Tax are both taxes on end consumers - how is changing from one to the other going to alter the tax paid by Amazon, Google etc? Serious question - I am not a tax expert!
 
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