table saw elimination round

[sunnybob]

I cant justify the thick end of a thousand pounds on a new saw, so after taking advice from a couple of people, its down to 2 choices.
the dewalt 745
or the makita ml100.
Theres a possible third choice in a makita 2712 depending on availability.
Anyone got one of these and want to endorse it to me?

 

[Bodgers]

When I was considering one of these things, I remember the Makita getting very mixed reviews e.g. build quality.

Have you considered the Metabo table saw? I have done recent purchases on a Metabo Mitre saw and planer and they are both excellent. I'd say the mitre saw is better quality than the Dewalt it replaced.

 

[sunnybob]

i'm struggling comparing two. my brain cant cope with more comparisons (hammer)
I need something that will cut straight and true with a an edge ready for gluing.

 

[Sideways]

Are you going to pack it up and move it around ?
If not, why would you buy anything that doesn't have an induction motor in it ?
Letting my biasses out, I don't consider anything made by dewalt to be fit for woodworking. Their stuff is generally regarded as powerful and tough. I find it all too noisy and a little bit crude. Leave it on the building site where it belongs

 

[sunnybob]

Youve summed up my own opinion of dewalt. And I dont even know about induction motors.
But the fence is reputed to be in a class of its own.

Have to admit I favour the makita, but it has a pressed alloy table. And thats the biggest issue I have with the ryobi I have now
It wont be going anywhere so portability is not an issue. The ability to cut straight clean edges is paramount.

 

[Sideways]

Induction motors are what are used in more stationary oriented machines. They don't have brushes. This gives them long life and negligible maintenance. They are also very smooth and quiet. Portable table saws like the dewalt and makita use brushed motors like in the handheld circular saw (before modern cordless brushless motors came along). You can recognise induction motors as they are the ones with fins on the outside of the body, or sometimes just smooth, but always a sort of cover over the end to protect the fan that blows air over the outside of the body to cool it. The motor is completey sealed so dust and damp can't get inside.
Brush motors are usually more powerful for the same weight, but very noisy, brushes wear out and dust can get inside so they tend not to last as long.
If I wanted a table saw to live in a workshop and cut super smooth edges. I'd buy the kind of saw that had an induction motor. My own is an old Kity 419 which I bought second hand but unused for about £350. Kity was bought up so nowadays it is a Scheppach Precisa 2.0. There are lots of other choices and buying secondhand is often a way to get a pretty decent saw that has plenty of life left in it. I think you'd find this nicer to live with than the models that havve been recommended to you so far. I'm sure others will chip in with recommendations now that they understand what matters most to you. Good hunting

 

[Roughcut]

Youve summed up my own opinion of dewalt. And I dont even know about induction motors.
But the fence is reputed to be in a class of its own.

Have to admit I favour the makita, but it has a pressed alloy table. And thats the biggest issue I have with the ryobi I have now
It wont be going anywhere so portability is not an issue. The ability to cut straight clean edges is paramount.

Read the online reviews for the Makita saw Bob.
They mostly don't sing it's praises.
The reviews i read a while back were mainly complaining of issues with table flatness.

 

[ScaredyCat]

I got myself a DeWalt 745 a couple of weeks ago, for me the primary driver was that whatever saw I got had to be portable as I have no workshop. I work in the garden and bring everything back in the house when I'm done. I was torn between the Scheppach and DeWalt but went for the 745 in the end. It was more expensive but the fence and top are good and what I've cut on it so far (before the beast came along) even with the stock blade has been clean.

If I had the space then the story would be different but I disagree that you can't do woodworking on the DeWalt - there are a lot of people that do.

 

[sunnybob]

That scheppach is 1500 quid at screwfix. non starter.
There is no second hand market here.

I've handled the makita. I know the table is the problem.
The dewalt.... I think its the colour mainly.....

Luckily this is not an urgent upgrade, but its definitely overdue.
The search continues.

 

[Hot stuff]

I had a Ryobi built into a couple of 8 x 4s of ply screwed together on a cabinet base and a home made Biesemeyer style fence. A couple of Freud blades let me do pretty much what I needed for a few years.
If I hadn't had the chance of my Jet for cheap money I don't think I'd have bothered changing and it really took me a few weeks of using it before I decided to keep it. I was struggling to see what it did that my old saw didn't, I think it was the sliding table that clinched it.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that it may be possible to adapt and improve what you've got rather than get something that's just different but still not ideal.

 

[Sideways]

That scheppach is 1500 quid at screwfix. non starter.
There is no second hand market here.

The importers - NMA agencies - seem to be selling it fully loaded with the stand, extension and sliding tables - for £800 inc the VAT...

You could leave off the sliding table until you know whether it is useful to you and save some more. Make your own stand and save some more still. The extension tables are useful because this gets you much longer front and rear rails and a longer rip fence extrusion.

Screwfix aren't competitive for anything even a little out of the mainstream like this.

 

[Ttrees]

Have you got neighbours?
You say the colour of the Dewalt bothers you, from the impression I got.
Wait till you turn on something that doesn't have an induction motor #-o

I seen a nice old Makita bench tablesaw before on the bay, with an induction motor
That or a similar machine with an induction motor would be my choice or no tablesaw atall.

I take it you are planning to be able to store the machine under a bench or something ?, hence the size..
Can you clarify where you envision it going.

I also seem to remember that you don't get on with hand planes (correct me if I'm wrong on that)
as you said your thumbs are arthritic ...my thumbs never get fatigued or anything and I have arthritis...
I would find an orbital sander instantly cramps my thumb and hurts my fingers and wrist for instance
Can you hold a saw?...(bit off topic sorry)...nevermind
Do you own a power jointer?
If not, I would want the biggest table you can get, for making hold down toggle clamp sleds to "joint" your work so it will register
off of the fence later.
Mitch Peacock has a video on this.

I personally think your asking for lots of trouble if you dont have a reliable quickish method for jointing timber.
Plus the fact that the blade is much closer to the operator on these small machines, than with a decent sized one.

I'll see if anythings on the bay for interests sake, as the machine I'm on about would be good for cutting slots for frets on musical instruments... not that I'm after one, as I've allready got two saws
Look for tablesaw and table saw in your search.

Here is what can happen when one gets fed up with the screaming universal brush motors on these things
The vintage Makita saw I seen is not to be found on the bay....maybe a google search would bring results.

Good luck
Tom

 

[sunnybob]

Yes, i am disabled in so much as I cant use hand planes or hammers and chisels because of my thumbs. I can use large sanding blocks though, but I shouldnt need to be sanding as much as I am.

I have a ryobi mitre saw with table on the top thats only about 15" square. Just looked for a link and it seems ryobi has discontinued it.
That cast aluminium table could be used by ants as a bmx course. I cant get it skimmed in a machine shop (I've tried, they wont) i've tried flattening it on a surface plate and there are dips so deep that if I did get it flat the metal would be see through.
I've made a zero insert plate, I've adjusted the off centre riving knife. I've checked the square of the fence, but thats irrelevant because of the slop in the channel. I've fitted a newly sharpened blade.
The compound mitre half of the machine is acceptable. The table saw is not. But if I can get a good table saw that will also do everything the mitre saw can, so its swap out time.

I dont have a lot of room, I'm using a 5m x 3m garage. I cant have a heavy floor standing machine.
I can have something semi portable or even something on wheels possibly, but the floor is sloping so thats not the best option.
No immediate neighbours, but I try to keep very loud noises to a minimum purely for the missus sake.
Up to £500 would be easy to fund, up to a grand would require an awful lot of brownie points and I am rubbish at household chores.

We are off for the weekend now (anniversary) and I dont take internet stuff with me when I travel so i wont answer any more posts till monday or maybe tuesday.

 

[giantbeat]

i had the makita ML100, it was utter garbage in everyway. id never recommend anyone buy one. horrifically loud, was a pig to get anything cut accurate, very little adjustments, starts with an unnerving bang & mine ended up in flames in my workshop after having a melt down under no load, its as rigid as a matchstick house. makita took it back & compensated me for it.

i replaced it with the BOSCH GTS10XC which is a wonderful lttle machine that is a similar size & came 100% setup & ready to go in the box, that things now 5 or 6 years old & cuts everything i put into it, its very accurate & capable.

 

[MikeJhn]

Bob

Have you heard back from Axminster re delivery, you said you had e-mailed them in your other thread.

I'm with everyone else re Induction motors, but its usually whey you are cutting material that the most noise ensues, surprising how much difference a different blade profile makes as well.
Mike

 

[sunnybob]

I'm back.
No news from axminster, I shall have to chase my contact.

Having looked at the makita ml 100 a while ago now, I'm really not impressed. i do have a fondness for makita though, so shall check out the larger saw.
sometime this week i shall have to go to the capital Nicosia as there are two or three shops that sell large machines. Problem is they are usually top dollar because there is no real competition.
makita prices here are more than double the UK like for like.

 

[transatlantic]

I really like my Scheppach HS105, sounds like you have a little more to spend, but don't discount it just because it's cheaper.

 

[sunnybob]

Its not that I HAVE more to spend, its that I think I am going to HAVE to spend more.

Just had to scrap another box because i could not get 4 flat sides.
Its getting urgent.

 

[MattRoberts]

I'm guessing you don't want to be in this situation again Bob - is it worth considering something more robust that a job site saw, something like the axminster TS 200?

 

[ScaredyCat]

There's a Startrite TA145 in the For Sale section going for ~£350