Stanley Chisels

[matthewwh]

Gingerly poking head above parapet..........

The AI's should be spot on, they won't be completely identical because they are a handmade product but even the wider ones shouldn't take more than five minutes to tune. If you receive some that do take longer, give me a call and we'll happily rectify it.

Regarding the new Stanleys, I reckon theres a big ol' pinch of salt that needs taking with Chris's blog sometimes, especially if it's an 'LN vs anyone else' situation.

Here he has focussed entirely on the condition of the backs straight out of the packet as if that were the only factor to consider when looking at a chisel - and then intimates that 'dead flat' is the correct condition (which it isn't). If he has just given them a quick wipe on a smoothish stone to show the condition then I reckon Stanley have made a very reasonable effort, especially at half the price of the LN's. The dippy ends on two of them are a pain, but they are a brand new product, if they start getting a few back from their retailers they will soon find a solution to that.

 

[Jacob]

I have never yet seen a chisel or plane iron that was perfect when new.......

I've never yet had a new chisel or plane iron which wasn't perfectly OK once sharpened. They all need sharpening, except today I got a pricey Ashley Iles gouge cheaper and better quality than a simple LN chisel in spite of being a much more difficult item to make. Perfect; clean, shiny, sharpened, honed, polished edge, usable outa the paper bag!

 

[tomatwark]

Hi Matthew

I was not having a dig at you, although the Chisels did come from you.

I always take this sort of marketing with a pinch of salt, as it depends on how good the bloke who sharpens them is and also some of us are more fussy than others.

I bet the QS block plane blade I ordered from you today for my LN block plane will need a bit of work.

At least the AI chisels did not comes with 40grit grinding marks in the back unlike the Irwin ones I was asked to sharpen for a customer recently.

Tom

 

[GazPal]

Pardon my apparent ignorance, but as apprentice we were always taught the flat of a blade was the face and the cutting edge, the edge (believe it or not) is the edge and the back being the rear of a blade/iron. This was over forty yrs ago and typical naming practise at that time, but it still seems odd that the flat of a blade should be called the back and not the face on which an edge is made/produced.

Just saying.

 

[Jacob]

Pardon my apparent ignorance, but as apprentice we were always taught the flat of a blade was the face and the cutting edge, the edge (believe it or not) and the back being the rear of a blade/iron. This was over forty yrs ago and typical naming practise at that time, but it still seems odd that the flat of a blade should be called the back and not the face on which an edge is made/produced.

Just saying.

Agree. Face = flat, back = bevel, with the edge in between. More logical that way.
Don't know why people want to change it around.
Maybe the same gang who insist on calling urns "hollow forms". :lol:

 

[mtt.tr]

As longs as they hold an edge when set i would be happy

 

[Doug B]

Maybe the same gang who insist on calling urns "hollow forms". :lol:

[-X :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[mtt.tr]

Thank christ matthew agrees with what i was thinking all this one brand is far better than the other because its got this name on is pineapples (and lie neilson planes are ugly :lol: )

I'm tempted to buy one off these chisels to try. i'm really interested in edge retention more than how flat they come i cant imagine old chisels came ready to use i think we all expect to much in the way off being ready to use out off the box.

 

[Alf]

Well I don't think that's what Matthew was saying - just that maybe you need to be alert for any writer's natural leanings towards one tool or another. He probably views anything I ever say about a Veritas tool with a healthy dose of "well you would say that"; I occasionally remember to view anything he says about Ashley Iles accompanied with a pinch of salt. I think it's a very wise thing to do, actually. With everyone. No such thing as a completely unprejudiced human being, and certainly not a woodworker.

Having a chisel jones - and particularly a socket chisel jones - I'd be interested to try one of these Stanley's too. Which is why I asked where, if anywhere, the Sweetheart planes are being sold in the UK, on the basis where the planes are already, the chisels are more likely to follow. But I suspect they're going to focus on the US market before we see them over here.

As to nomenclature, I suspect the flat face of the chisel gets referred to as the back because the focus in discussion is often on sharpening and thus the bevel. And the flat face is the "back" of the bevel. We mostly seem to know what what we're all talking about, which is the main thing.

 

[jimi43]

I'm wondering whether Stanley are responding to a general view that over an extended period of time, their wares have been slowly degraded to cut costs to the point where they are useless.

Couple this with the ignominy of the Chinese producing better products than them..... :mrgreen:

But...I think that some marketing guru at Stanley then said "hey...I think I heard that people like the Sweetheart name"...and so they tweeked the quality a bit and stuck Sweetheart all over it to signify "good...init".

Pity they didn't get a woodworker and an engineer involved too.....

Oh boy, am I cynical! :lol:

The sad thing is...for the price of a cup of tea you can pick a good old chisel up at a bootfair and use it for another 100 years... :roll:

Jim

 

[tomatwark]

At the end of the day while you need good quality tools old or new, it is the skill of the person using them that counts.

I was taught as apprentice that all new tools you bought needed to be sharpened and have always expected that will be the case no matter what the marketing says.

LN make some very nice stuff but I feel it is alot of money and I doubt I would buy another block plane if something happened to the one I have.

LN is starting to become something of a status symbol, partly due to being the only one making some of the planes no one else made when they started and some very clever marketing.

There are lots of alternatives now at alot more sensible prices.

Tom

 

[Muina]

No matter who you buy from, there's always going to be a bad batch at some point, especially if there's some human interference in the building process.

I recently watched a video on the making of chisels, and even when they're machine made a human still grinds bevels and edges etc. So that bad batch could have been first thing on a Monday morning or last thing on a Friday afternoon, my Tutor told us that he absolutely loves DeWalt but can't stand Makita, whereas a former colleague loves Makita and hates DeWalt. This is simply because he had a drill from a bad batch of Makita and his colleague had one from a bad batch of DeWalt.

Still, when you're paying that much money for the product it should be as close to perfect as possible.

Anthony

 

[bugbear]

Pardon my apparent ignorance, but as apprentice we were always taught the flat of a blade was the face and the cutting edge, the edge (believe it or not) is the edge and the back being the rear of a blade/iron. This was over forty yrs ago and typical naming practise at that time, but it still seems odd that the flat of a blade should be called the back and not the face on which an edge is made/produced.

Just saying.

"back" and "bevel" are the time honoured names, used by generations of craftsman. Lots of names are weird or silly, both in many trades, and English as a whole.

It's probably done to annoy apprentices and foreigners respectively.

If want logic in your language, use Esparanto!

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Pardon my apparent ignorance, but as apprentice we were always taught the flat of a blade was the face and the cutting edge, the edge (believe it or not) is the edge and the back being the rear of a blade/iron. This was over forty yrs ago and typical naming practise at that time, but it still seems odd that the flat of a blade should be called the back and not the face on which an edge is made/produced.

Just saying.

"back" and "bevel" are the time honoured names, used by generations of craftsman. ........

I agree. Also "Face" for the flat side (back and bevel on the other side) is a time honoured name used by generations of craftsman (and is more logical).

 

[bugbear]

Pardon my apparent ignorance, but as apprentice we were always taught the flat of a blade was the face and the cutting edge, the edge (believe it or not) is the edge and the back being the rear of a blade/iron. This was over forty yrs ago and typical naming practise at that time, but it still seems odd that the flat of a blade should be called the back and not the face on which an edge is made/produced.

Just saying.

"back" and "bevel" are the time honoured names, used by generations of craftsman. ........

I agree. Also "Face" for the flat side (back and bevel on the other side) is a time honoured name used by generations of craftsman (and is more logical).

Yes. "Face" is a synonym for "back". This is not logical, but it is traditional.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

.....
Yes. "Face" is a synonym for "back". ....

Is your face on the same side as your back BB? You could have your head on back to front!

 

[bugbear]

.....
Yes. "Face" is a synonym for "back". ....

Is your face on the same side as your back BB? You could have your head on back to front!

Ah - the old "Grimsdale dodge"

BugBear