Sketchup Tutorials... * Blleeeeeeeeeeep *

[Neomorph]

Do any other Sketchup students out there find the video tutorials completely confusing and unclear at times... Instead of doing step by step like any other software tool the demonstrator shoots ahead with "OOOH LOOK WHAT I CAN DO" syndrome leaving the student swearing his head off and hitting the rewind button.

I've followed the "Follow Me Tool" video loads of times and can't for the life of me get it to work like it's supposed to do. All I want to do is add a roundover edge to a top and I've been at it until the demo timed out (queue norton ghost reinstall) and still haven't been able to figure out what the hell I'm doing wrong.

I used to make animated 3d models for Counter Strike and found it easy... Sketchup on the other hand seems easy but when you try to do something simple it takes forever to figure out which makes me feel like throwing my damn laptop across the room. I know SU can do it but if I can't get the program to actually DO the silly thing then I'm better off using paper and pen which is absurd. :evil:

I'm at a crossroads at the moment... Part of me wants to buy SU as I can see how useful it could be in working out ideas without wasting wood... yet the other part of me feels that the program is just infuriatingly difficult or obtuse to do simple things.

Until I can figure out if I can use it sufficiently I'm not forking out nearly £400 for a program that is giving me high blood pressure! :?

 

[Anonymous]

John

I have tried SU after 20 years using high end CAD programs costing between a few thousand (solid edge, AutoCAD) and many tens of thousands (unigraphics, Working Model 4D) of pounds.

SU is by far the hardest package I have come across and I really rate it 1 out of 10 as nothing seems intuitive to me and some of the methods of work are, in my opionon, simply ridiculous when compared to 'real' CAD. For example that horrible protractor for setting angles!!!! In othe packages, I simply type an angle in degrees and voila! done.

Look at other low-cost packages like TurboCAD before wasting your money.

 

[Neomorph]

John

SU is by far the hardest package I have come across and I really rate it 1 out of 10 as nothing seems intuitive to me and some of the methods of work are, in my opionon, simply ridiculous when compared to 'real' CAD. For example that horrible protractor for setting angles!!!! In othe packages, I simply type an angle in degrees and voila! done.

Look at other low-cost packages like TurboCAD before wasting your money.

At least it's not me... I'm thinking that I'm going to cut my losses and get a proper CAD package as like you say it's definately not intuitive...

 

[Nick W]

It is true that SketchUp's way of working is different from most (all?) other CAD systems out there, and will therefore take a little time to adapt to, particularly if you are ingrained with the other ways of working. However once the SU concept 'clicks' I believe that you will find SU to be much more productive than any other environment.

I say this from 15 years experience of writing high end CAD and GIS systems.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I have tried SU after 20 years using high end CAD programs costing between a few thousand (solid edge, AutoCAD) and many tens of thousands (unigraphics, Working Model 4D) of pounds.
.

But surely, Tony, you are not comparing like with like. It may be true that SE is the D's B's, but who here can justify the expense? We all think that SU is quite dear enough, thank you very much.

Look at other low-cost packages like TurboCAD before wasting your money.

I agree that TC, which I used only briefly and a very long time ago, is worth looking at, if what I have read is anything to go by. Also Design Max 3D.

It seems to me that everyone is right here, SU is different, and some things are infuriating (mirroring and the Follow Me are probably the dodgiest) but I still think that anyone coming to CAD from nowhere, without the ACAD/SE/TC/DOGS* baggage will find SU easy, useful and worthwhile. I certainly wouldn't be without it.

Cheers
Steve
* That dates me. Did anyone here ever come to PAFEC at Strelley Hall?

 

[Anonymous]

I have tried SU after 20 years using high end CAD programs costing between a few thousand (solid edge, AutoCAD) and many tens of thousands (unigraphics, Working Model 4D) of pounds.
.

But surely, Tony, you are not comparing like with like. It may be true that SE is the D's B's, but who here can justify the expense? We all think that SU is quite dear enough, thank you very much.

Missing my point here Steve which is that I don't think much of sketchup as a CAD package and that there are LOADS of better alternatives out there at a similar price to, or less (often far less) than sketchup.

I did not suggest that anyone should buy one of the large packages I referred to, I simply compared what I know to be a typical CAD experience with SU.

In my opinion, IntelliCAD, TurboCAD or many others are worth checking out first and are much easier to use.

 

[Nick W]

SketchUp themselves say that SU is NOT a CAD product. It doesn't have full parameteric modelling, it doesn't provide links into external relational databases etc. etc. ... To compare SU with ACAD is not comparing like with like.

What I like about SU as a computer based, 3D drafting package is that, with a couple of exceptions which I am will live with or work around, there is nothing with a better price/features/usability (once you've got over the initial UI paradigm change)/productivity balance for producing furniture designs.

But hey what are we arguing about? If there weren't diversity in the world, what a boring place it would be eh?

 

[Nick W]

Now let me try to answer Neomorph's original question without resorting to pictures. 8-[

The follow me tool is a bit of a B to use, but once you get the hang of it (I seem to be saying that a lot today :? ) it does work.

To add a roundover edge to a top:
1) Draw the profile of the roundover on one of the outside edge corners of the top, as if it were the initial entry of a router cutter making the profile.

2) Ensure that this profile is part of that face. It should be drawn as a thin line. If it is thick it is not part of that face. Trace over it with the pencil tool until it decides to become part of the face. There should now be two faces in place of the original one. To check use the selector tool to select each in turn.

3) Pre-select the path that you want the profile to follow. I.E. select each of the four edges bounding the top surface of the top. Do not select the surface itself. Where you have drawn the profile, that edge will be broken, so you will need to select 5 lines to get the profile to go all the way round.

4) Activate the follow-me tool and click in the area defined by your drawn profile and the corner it was drawn around.

Et Voila!

There are other ways of doing this, but they are even harder to describe without the use of pictures. The really important thing seems to be ensuring that the profile is part of the initial face.

When I get a decent amount of permanent web-space I may well produce a pictorial tutorial

If that doesn't help let me know, and I'll have another go.

 

[Nick W]

Actually, having done some checking, step 3 can be simplified to

3) Pre-select the path that you want the profile to follow. This is most easily done by double-clicking the top face with the selector tool.

Note that you can leave the top face itself selected.

 

[wizer]

I found that sketchup was easier to learn and use than autocad, I just didnt know where to begin with AC.

 

[Neomorph]

I think my problem is that I've used other 3D modelling programs and that SU does things a lot different to them. Part of my frustration is that sometimes the silly program goes into slo-mo and then I have to close it down and re-open it as it causes all sorts of stupid mistakes.

I think I'm going to take a few days break because I've been hammering my head against a brick wall trying to follow the tutorials and the voiceovers were done by the most infuriating, irritating voices I've ever heard. :x

 

[Nick W]

John,

I've not had any problems with SU going slow. Is there something else going on on your computer?

Re. the video 'tutorials', they are pretty dire as tutorials, I think they're more of a sales aid really. Looks like SketchUp and WoodRat have a deal in common - excellent product messed up by c**p training and documentation.

If you'd like I'll lend you the book, p.m. me your address and I'll pop it in the post (the book that is, not your address :lol: ). Anyone else who'd like to borrow it please form an orderly queue, no fighting, and no pushing in. :wink:

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I missed this thread before and maybe I should stay out of it but I'll add a couple of things.

First, in response to Tony's statement: "Missing my point here Steve which is that I don't think much of sketchup as a CAD package and that there are LOADS of better alternatives out there at a similar price to, or less (often far less) than sketchup." As Nick said, SketchUp is not a CAD program. It was never meant to be and shouldn't be compared to CAD applications. If you need CAD capabilities then either export a DXF or DWG file from SU or don't use it at all. To say you don't think much of it as a CAD package is like saying you don't think much of orange marmalade as a roast beef. :wink:

John, if you are finding that SU is going into "slo mo", there are a couple of possible things to check. Compare your video card with the ones that @Last suggests. It may be that your video card doesn't have enough RAM to handle all the information being fed to it. I sometimes have issues on my computer at work but it isn't my computer so I can't do anything about that.

Also avoid using the texture display while drawing and use components when possible. These things will reduce the work load for the video card.

Regarding the tutorials, look at them from the viewpoint of an architect. That's who this software was designed for. No, the tutorials don't show you how to draw a cabinet or a chair. Architects draw buildings.

I've made tutorials and sent them to numerous folks. They seem to help.

I'm sorry to say this but I think if you find that SketchUp is not intuitive, you are unlikely to find any of the CAD apps intuitve.

I if anyone who has already decided that SketchUp doesn't work for them, they should stop using it and try to find something that does. Forget SU even exists and you'll sleep better. Go buy a CAD program instead and get busy learning it.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Neomorph]

With the slo-mo I think I can guess the reason... As I've been ill I've spent a lot of time in bed and have been using my laptop to use SU. It's a Athlon 64 3400+ but only has 512mb of ram but does have a Nvidia GeForce FX Go 5700 in it which I would have thought would handle 3D easily. Downside is it only has 64mb of ram in it.

Another problem is that this lappie has a problem with another program somewhere and I haven't figured it out yet. When I right click in explorer the damn thing hangs and I have to kill explorer to get it working right. It usually means a program has messed up the menu and when I crash explorer it crashes the duff program too which fixes it.

Sometimes I just hate PC's :?

 

[NeilO]

And i appreciate that it is probably an american piece of software, but...
following one of the tutorial videos on using the protractor tool..why do they use strange dimensions like 8/12 ??? for angles ....would it not have been easier to USE the degree notations of the protractor itself????, 22.5, 45, 90, 180 you get the picture....
talking of which can anyone help me with the american system of wood sizings as well...i mean we all understand 4 x 2, but 5/4 stock :?:

 

[NeilO]

And i appreciate that it is probably an american piece of software, but...
following one of the tutorial videos on using the protractor tool..why do they use strange dimensions like 8/12 ??? for angles ....would it not have been easier to USE the degree notations of the protractor itself????, 22.5, 45, 90, 180 you get the picture....
talking of which can anyone help me with the american system of wood sizings as well...i mean we all understand 4 x 2, but 5/4 stock :?:

 

[Neomorph]

And i appreciate that it is probably an american piece of software, but...
following one of the tutorial videos on using the protractor tool..why do they use strange dimensions like 8/12 ??? for angles ....would it not have been easier to USE the degree notations of the protractor itself????, 22.5, 45, 90, 180 you get the picture....
talking of which can anyone help me with the american system of wood sizings as well...i mean we all understand 4 x 2, but 5/4 stock :?:

Yeah... stupid americans can't speak proper english but are the only ones to use english dimensions... Go figure! :-s

I too can't understand the protractor tool and it's one of the things I've got to get to grips with. Dave R?

 

[SketchUp Guru]

English? I'm not going there.

As to the protractor thing, it is really quite simple. 4/12 (or 4:12) is a typical roof pitch given as rise over run. Why angles in degrees aren't used for roof pitches is beyond me but it started long before SketchUp or even before computers. It is also used for stairs and ramps. (The Americans with Disabilities Act guidelines specify that wheelchair ramps not be steeper than 1:12 pitch.

Actually it does make sense to me to use pitch because it can be measured with straight measuring tools. Have you ever seen a protractor that could acurately measure the angle of a 36 foot long ramp?

In SU you can enter the pitch or you can enter and angle. SketchUp won't mind if you'd rather use degrees for a roof angle. It's flexible either way.

While I'm blabbing, did you know that even if you are working in millimetres you can enter a dimension in the VCB in inches or feet? Just use the proper label for the units.

And one last thing. I think the Friday SketchUp Tips are going to come out tomorrow (Tuesday or is that Wednesday?) Would anyone object to that?

 

[Neomorph]

Well Dave I can honestly say that SU is finally growing on me. Except for the slomo prob on my laptop (it's definately memory prob) everything seems to be coming along fine.

Here is a work in progress of the media server cabinet which will hold my Home Server, network hub and all the hard drives that contain my music and videos of TV series that I download from the net.

The upper section will contain the network hub and wireless access point. The center section is for the PC itself and the lower section will contain the hard drives in an anti-vibration array (basically suspending the hard drives via elastic strapping). The reason for this is that my current box suffers from hard drive harmonics and it can drive you nutty lol. The silver areas show where I will be putting grounded metal to isolate any em interference. Both the PC and hard drive areas are seperate to stop heat affecting one or the other. Both sections will also have accoustic material inside to reduce any noise from fans and spinning hard drives.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

John! It looks like you're getting the hang of it. Congratulations. That's a great drawing for a newbie. Keep at it. You've given me a couple of ideas for the third installment of Friday SketchUp Tips.


Keep plugging away.

BTW, the slowing down could be due to the 64Mb of RAM. I have 256Mb on my computer at home and even then sometimes big models can bog it down especially when I have textures and or shadows turned on. Remember, do your drawing without the textures or shadows on and turn them on for display or printing.