Shellac as a finish in UK

[Dynamite]

Is it me or is the Sellac you see in many many youtube vids (mainly in the US), hard to get over here. I can’t seem to find any clear ready mixed Shellac anywhere. Is it called something different here?

Kind regards… Rob

 

[niall Y]

You can buy pale, French polish, which dries colourless. Various gilding places do it. One of the manufacturers is Liberon.

 

[Ollie78]

Its a bit speciaist I often use special pale and shellac sanding sealer. I have seen the Zinsser spray cans once or twice but it is rare.
I think most people who use Shellac a lot make thier own with flakes. It might be to do with shelf life or people liking their own recipe.
Try Restorate (used to be called rest express) they have Liberon, Fiddes and Mylands products. Restorate - Restoration & Decorating Products Retailer for Trade & DIY

Ollie

 

[johnnyb]

I think fresh pre mix shellac is a slightly harder setting product as the alcohol used is drier than meths. Pale dewaxed is the most useful.

 

[thetyreman]

I make my own shellac, using liberon flakes and isopropyl alcohol, I've found grinding the flakes in a coffee grinder massively speeds up the process, and douwe and egberts coffee jars are perfect for it, they don't leak at all when shaking it up.

 

[TRITON]

In Glasgow we have Smith and Rodger's Been going for near 150 years and suppliers of polishes and finishes.
https://www.smithandrodger.co.uk/https://www.smithandrodger.co.uk/shop
Pretty much the one stop shop for every cabinetmaker in Glasgow.

These guys are the pros when it comes to french polish, sanding sealer, button, garnet, trans etc etc. They make it all on the premises, and will make up any weight or thickness you need.

This is all they do and have done for the last century and a half.

 

[RobNichols]

I make my own shellac, using liberon flakes and isopropyl alcohol, I've found grinding the flakes in a coffee grinder massively speeds up the process, and douwe and egberts coffee jars are perfect for it, they don't leak at all when shaking it up.

I've been making my own too recently and likewise find a cheap coffee grinder helps a lot. It is easy to do and definitely recommended by me.

However, the Smith & Rodgers Shellacs look interesting. I'll have to give them a try (can't stop fiddling)

 

[Dynamite]

You can buy pale, French polish, which dries colourless. Various gilding places do it. One of the manufacturers is Liberon.

Thanks Niall, is this an identical product, just called a different name?

 

[Dynamite]

These guys are the pros when it comes to french polish, sanding sealer, button, garnet, trans etc etc. They make it all on the premises, and will make up any weight or thickness you need.

Thanks Triton, you've reminded me, I have another ponderment on this subject....

Is Shellac sometimes called "Sanding Sealer" but essentially it's the same thing?

 

[Dynamite]

Actually, im getting really bamboozled now...

- French Polish?
- Sanding Sealer?
- Shellac?
- Sealing Primer?

Out there, some of the products I've just looked at even use a mixture of the above wording on their labels!!! Maybe it's marketing or something but as a relative amateur, I dont stand a chance.

Great advice as usual though from you all.

 

[Adam W.]

Don't forget to add button polish to your list.

 

[RobNichols]

Thanks Triton, you've reminded me, I have another ponderment on this subject....

Is Shellac sometimes called "Sanding Sealer" but essentially it's the same thing?

Shellac is often used as a sanding sealer, but other compounds are also used - for example Cellulose sealers that use a plant based compound.

I believe when used as a sanding sealer, you'd tend to dilute the solution more - as you want penetration. Whereas when French polishing you use a more concentrated solution - as the aim here is to build up a smooth outer surface. Of course sanding sealer could be applied as a first step towards a French polished end point.

 

[furnace]

I have used Liberon Spirit Sanding Sealer for years as a shellac finish although I notice it has been removed from Liberon's web site. Dries quickly and easy to apply. I've contacted them to ask what they offer as a replacement

 

[worn thumbs]

Thanks Triton, you've reminded me, I have another ponderment on this subject....

Is Shellac sometimes called "Sanding Sealer" but essentially it's the same thing?

More or less the same but it does have sodium stearate added to limit it's propensity to gum up abrasive paper.

 

[XTiffy]

Sanding sealer is used with a "mop" or brush and as worn thumbs says it is easier to cut it back. The additive also helps to fill up the pores of the wood i.e. as a grain filler. So it is really a simple way to build up a surface. Would be best described as a "cheap" process.
The various "French Polishes" are variations on a theme. The colour of the shellac flakes determines on how opaque the finish is. The bleached shellac mixes are used where you would not want to colour either a pale wood or marquetry where you want to presrve the contrast of the veneers used.

 

[TRITON]

Shellac is often used as a sanding sealer, but other compounds are also used - for example Cellulose sealers that use a plant based compound.

I believe when used as a sanding sealer, you'd tend to dilute the solution more - as you want penetration. Whereas when French polishing you use a more concentrated solution - as the aim here is to build up a smooth outer surface. Of course sanding sealer could be applied as a first step towards a French polished end point.

Sanding sealer as far as im aware is thicker, so it puts a lot of material on each coat. More coats = thicker base layer= better base for a flatter final finish.

 

[Robbo3]

If shellac is the same as shellac sanding sealer then it's available from most wood turning suppliers.
Terry Smart from Chestnut products categorically states that there is no need to thin shellac sanding sealer - & that his sales do not increase because it's used as sold.
Wood turners use three types of sanding sealer ;shellac thinned with meths, cellulose thinned with cellulose thinners - the proper stuff, not reclaimed, & acrylic which is water based.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Actually, im getting really bamboozled now...

- French Polish?
- Sanding Sealer?
- Shellac?
- Sealing Primer?

Out there, some of the products I've just looked at even use a mixture of the above wording on their labels!!! Maybe it's marketing or something but as a relative amateur, I dont stand a chance.

Great advice as usual though from you all.

French polish is the term for applying the shellac but it is often used to describe the shellac. ( there are also a few variations in the spelling)
In brief.....there are two types of shellac Button and Garnet all other shellacs are refined from these. The most common and most useful is SPB which means special pale button as it is refined from button polish. The only truly transparent polish is 'white polish' It has a milky appearance but will not add any amber tones to the wood unlike all other shellacks, as such it is good to use on very pale woods such as sycamore but is mostly used when polishing over inlays including mother of pearl and metals, the big disadvantage is it is very brittle as to get the transparency the natural waxes are removed.
Other refined shellacs are sanding sealer which has silica added to help fill the grain. Others have rosin and even cellulose lacquer added to improve hardness or weather resistance.
If you are just starting out I would suggest you use SPB. Some French polishers have spent their entire career using nothing else. I have been French polishing for 45 years but as I restore antique furniture I use quite a variety of shellacks , mostly SPB but I also like W.S. Jenkins outside polishes which are thin, harden very quickly and are tough. You don't need sanding sealer, a thinned down SPB worked in with a cotton rag will do just as well.
The natural shellacks can be applied with or without the aid of raw linseed oil however the refined ones generally cannot be used with oil.
Your original question about availability has already been answered by others and I can also recommend Restorate - Restoration & Decorating Products Retailer for Trade & DIY

Here is an interesting video on the process of making shellac.

 

[robgul]

Another supplier of all things finishing and polishing : A G Woodcare at Bidford-on-Avon

 

[RobNichols]

Another supplier of all things finishing and polishing : A G Woodcare at Bidford-on-Avon

Thank you! That's not far from me. Think I might pop over Saturday morning and have a look