Sharpening chisels/planes

[damo8604]

I was watching Paul Sellers' youtube videos last night on sharpening chisels and planes.

Admittedly it's not something I was ever good at and as I'd never been taught, I realized I'd been doing it all wrong (thank goodness for youtube eh?)

I used to use a Stanley honing guide on a sharpening stone smothered in oil, it was very messy, I carved a groove into my stone and to top it all off, my chisels (although pretty poor quality B&Q jobbies) never seemed to be as sharp as they were fresh out of the packet. So I was surprised to hear him saying the chisels (even brand new) needed work immediately to become sharp.

Secondly, I noticed he didn't use a honing guide..... is this normal? does it matter if you don't have a precise 25 or 30 degree angle?

I'm looking forward to purchasing some decent chisels but I almost baulked when I saw the price, as much as I'm willing to spend on a table saw??

Are there any brands I should look at getting bearing in mind I'm an (extremely) amateur hobby woodworker who is perhaps at skill level 1 (maybe 2). I'm looking at trying different joints (the non-illegal variety) so I know I should ideally get a set of dovetail chisels, mortice chisels and then my everyday 'normal' chisels.

I'm looking forward to learning to plane stuff too, I have a Stanley No4 (never used and still in the packaging) that I bought maybe 15 years ago, I never got around to using it and I bought a ferm power plane when I discovered Screwfix and destroyed a door I was trying to fit it now has a funny little curve on one end and horrible breakout (patched with wood filler) the other end.

I wish this forum and youtube was available 10 years ago, I'd have saved myself soooooo much money

 

[Jacob]

...
Secondly, I noticed he didn't use a honing guide..... is this normal? does it matter if you don't have a precise 25 or 30 degree angle?

Perfectly normal. Faster and easier. Angle not critical. Honing guides are a feature of the burgeoning amateur and DIY market and were not used at all in the glory days of woodworking.

Any old (or new) chisels will do. They are simple objects. It's nicer to have "nice" ones but they won't improve your woodwork.

 

[Bod]

Get an "Eclipse" type honing guide, much easier to use than the Stanley type.
Getting the right angle is all about practise, the guide will give you a consistent angle, when you have that fixed in muscle memory, then a guide may not be necessary. Some like me use them constantly, others never do.
Learn to use what you have, then replace what you use with better, as required.

Bod

 

[jim_hanna]

While I have nothing but respect for professionals who can sharpen freehand it's not for me and I would suggest not for you either if you can't get B&Q chisels as sharp as when purchased.

There is a huge amount, possibly too much for a beginner, of information about sharpening online. I would suggest you search for a technique called scary sharp, buy a few sheets of wet and dry paper out of Halfords and use these stuck to a piece of glass with your honing guide. This will get you a reasonably sharp edge without much skill or effort and you then have something to gauge against if you decide to use another technique.

Regards

Jim

 

[John15]

Try Ebay for some decent second-hand chisels. I got most of mine that way. Old Marples or Stanley are good and not much money. Make sure the handles are sound and the blades are decent, but expect to do some sharpening.

John

 

[custard]

The problem with looking for sharpening solutions on the internet is a lot of people are a bit evangelical about the topic, indeed for some people the hobby of "sharpening" has taken over from the hobby of "woodworking"! So you'll get loaded with conflicting advice while impassioned devotees of the one true way try and recruit you into their sharpening tribe. It gets worse because what's actually best for you is influenced by what woods and other materials you use, what you make, what tools you have, what grinding options are open to you, whether you're site based or bench based, what space is available, and what your budget is. None of which the sharpenistas are remotely interested in finding out.

Personally I'm not that agitated about sharpening, "whatever" would be my conclusion. I've seen outstanding craftsmen use many different methods, which suggests there's probably more than one way to skin a cat!

If you're coming down to my workshop I can show you scary sharp, oil stones, diamond stones, and water stones. You can have a go on each, you can try freehand and with honing guides, you can try them with factory issue "thin" Stanley plane blades and with 5mm thick cryogenically treated A2 plane blades. You can think about the implication for skewed blades, in-cannel and out-cannel gouges, tiny blades, huge blades, and any other tools that you may need to sharpen.

And after you've done all that you can go away and make up your own mind about what's likely to work best for you!

 

[Mr_P]

While I have nothing but respect for professionals who can sharpen freehand it's not for me and I would suggest not for you either if you can't get B&Q chisels as sharp as when purchased.

There is a huge amount, possibly too much for a beginner, of information about sharpening online. I would suggest you search for a technique called scary sharp, buy a few sheets of wet and dry paper out of Halfords and use these stuck to a piece of glass with your honing guide. This will get you a reasonably sharp edge without much skill or effort and you then have something to gauge against if you decide to use another technique.

Regards

Jim

Will that work ?
Isn't scary sharp sandpaper better quality/more expensive than normal sandpaper ?

I have a 1 metre float glass for plane sole fettling and had a cunning plan recently when trying to de-skew a plane iron so tried it with my eclipse 36 honing guide. Maybe it was my cheap sandpaper but it just shredded it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you see Aldi chisels on offer (£8) grab them. They are better than some three or four times the price. Watch the markets and car boots - I've never paid more than £4 for a Ward.

 

[G S Haydon]

Sadly there is little wisdom to offer. All systems work, all have their price along with pros and cons. Pick what you fancy or whichever system a mentor might recommend and practice .

 

[Carl P]

Hi,

Have to say I agree entirely with GS - all the methods work, main thing that helped me was practicing on chisels that were good enough to use but not so expensive that I was worried about wrecking them in the process - secondhand/car boot chisels can be good for practice, if they are not too badly abused by a previous owner. When I decided to sharpen freehand I found having an eclipse jig very handy to check how far in/out I was. Also if you don't know how sharp it can be, use an eclipse type jig. I used scary sharp method for a while, it was a revelation, and easily repeatable if slow, now I use oilstones and I find I can get the same sharpness. And of course ask as many questions on here as you can, then we all get to learn something!

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[xy mosian]

Pick what you fancy or whichever system a mentor might recommend and practice .

GS, I think you have got it in one there.

Many on-line instructions, very good though they may be, do not attempt to describe what to do, or even identify, if problems occurr. A mentor who can be shown a problem visually is more likely to be able to help than one who is described a problem by someone who may not know the commonly used terminology.

Custard has made a wonderful offer there, my advice would be to grab it with both hands. The best of learning in one to one.

xy

 

[damo8604]

Custard has made a wonderful offer there, my advice would be to grab it with both hands. The best of learning in one to one.

xy

Haha, I have already taken him up, you can't beat one on one

 

[jim_hanna]

While I have nothing but respect for professionals who can sharpen freehand it's not for me and I would suggest not for you either if you can't get B&Q chisels as sharp as when purchased.

There is a huge amount, possibly too much for a beginner, of information about sharpening online. I would suggest you search for a technique called scary sharp, buy a few sheets of wet and dry paper out of Halfords and use these stuck to a piece of glass with your honing guide. This will get you a reasonably sharp edge without much skill or effort and you then have something to gauge against if you decide to use another technique.

Regards

Jim

Will that work ?
Isn't scary sharp sandpaper better quality/more expensive than normal sandpaper ?

What I would call sandpaper is the two sheets on the left below, the sort of thing you would use on paint or wood. For sharpening you need wet and dry, much finer. Can't remember the price but it's not that expensive and you can get packets of mixed grits. The 2500 grit will put a mirror shine on metal.

Jim

 

[richarddownunder]

The problem with looking for sharpening solutions on the internet is a lot of people are a bit evangelical about the topic, indeed for some people the hobby of "sharpening" has taken over from the hobby of "woodworking"! So you'll get loaded with conflicting advice while impassioned devotees of the one true way try and recruit you into their sharpening tribe. It gets worse because what's actually best for you is influenced by what woods and other materials you use, what you make, what tools you have, what grinding options are open to you, whether you're site based or bench based, what space is available, and what your budget is. None of which the sharpenistas are remotely interested in finding out.

Personally I'm not that agitated about sharpening, "whatever" would be my conclusion. I've seen outstanding craftsmen use many different methods, which suggests there's probably more than one way to skin a cat!

If you're coming down to my workshop I can show you scary sharp, oil stones, diamond stones, and water stones. You can have a go on each, you can try freehand and with honing guides, you can try them with factory issue "thin" Stanley plane blades and with 5mm thick cryogenically treated A2 plane blades. You can think about the implication for skewed blades, in-cannel and out-cannel gouges, tiny blades, huge blades, and any other tools that you may need to sharpen.

And after you've done all that you can go away and make up your own mind about what's likely to work best for you!

Amen.

I use a diamond stone followed by a fine water stone but there are plenty of methods. I still use a honing guide after many years and find it very quick, I get the same angle each time and it means it only takes a dozen swipes on each surface and a tickle up on the back and its back to razor sharp. But I'd take up the kind offer of a go with a few different approaches and see what you like.

Tools are a minefield for advice. If you can get decent second hand with lots of metal remaining, they are fine. I bought some new Ashley Iles a while back and love using them. I probably only use 2 or 3 sizes predominantly so you don't need dozens either. I'd prefer to have a few good ones I enjoy using than a bunch of cheapies that don't hold an edge. But that's just me.

Cheers
Richard

 

[DTR]

To be fair to your B&Q chisels, I bought a set of Homebase chisels as a temporary measure five years ago.... They're still going strong now, and I still haven't got round to putting my vintage chisels back into use.

 

[JohnCee]

...
Honing guides are a feature of the burgeoning amateur and DIY market and were not used at all in the glory days of woodworking.

This is tommyrot.
My grandad was a time served, professional joiner for 50 years and he always used a honing guide.

 

[Rhossydd]

This is tommyrot.
My grandad was a time served, professional joiner for 50 years and he always used a honing guide.

You need to remember that Jacob's "glory days of woodworking" was before mass manufacture.
Helpful sharpening jigs have been available since mass manufacture of tools in the 19th century http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/jigarch.html so Jacob calling them a 'new fashion' says a lot.

 

[clauskeller]

I can strongly recommend: Just try it like Paul Sellers shows! You can't do wrong and will get good results after a short learning curve. I did and sharpen freehand since.

Claus

 

[AndyNC]

I've bought a few secondhand planes and it's easy to tell the hand sharpened ones: the cutting edge is not square.

I know this is not 100% proof but I always use a honing guide, it takes bit longer but you don't accumulate any errors of not sharpening it square.
Eventually you run out of lateral adjustment in the plane.
I use a eclipse with a wooden gauge to slide against to get the angle consistent.

My thoughts anyway.

Cheers

Andy

 

[Trafalgar]

The obvious pitfall of logic to avoid is the assumption that every old tool one comes across was used by a Jedi woodworking master.

The kit of a bona fide master, assuming there was much steel left on the chisels and cutting irons in the first place, likely ended up in the hands of a business partner, apprentice, craftsman/friend, etc. where what was left was entirely used up. The stuff that washes up on the beach now is usually of very uncertain origin and in a condition that indicates the last owner or two were far from expert hand craftsmen. Yet, we often impute into their condition some 'secret' of 'how it was done,' etc. when they are mostly shining examples of how things should not be done/how a tool should not be set up and maintained.

I've left intact the belly of a few old belly-backed chisels (now long gone) and except for a very limited set of circumstances where pivoting off the hump is helpful a plain, flat and polished back seems to work best for general bench use. And this is congruent with virtually every old woodworking manual I've ever read that states plainly, and explicity, 'lay the cutter FLAT on the stone when backing off the burr' 'do not let a bevel creep into the back' or words to that effect.