Second chance for Bosch service - Update

[Mister S]

Some weeks ago my router stopped working and as it's a few years old now it's out of warranty. I had visions of a monstrous bill to fix it. I sent it to Bosch for repair and it turned out to be the switch so cost was about £20 pounds which I was happy with.

Bosch claim to turn around the work in 5 days, but in my case it was twice that long and they addressed it to my neighbours address when they returned it. The worst part was the way they packed it. It came back in cardboard box that was far too big with minimal packing inside so the routed had been bouncing round the box on it's journey. It was lucky the spindle wasn't damaged - you could see where it had been digging into the side of the box.

I've let Bosch service know I wasn't happy and am still in dialogue with them about my experience.

My local Axminster shop recommended a local independent repairer (well 30 miles from me so sort of local) should I ever need it repaired again. Guess what - I do.

There is a definite electrical fault with the router. There is a tiny electrical leakage via the casing (felt as a tingling sensation) when it powered up. Not enough to trip the RCD, but it shouldn't be there. I don't know if this was there before it went back to Bosch, there is no way of knowing. But it is supposed to have been checked by Bosch before it was returned anyway, but they didn't pick up on it.

So the question is, do I send it back to Bosch (it's still within the 3 months repair warranty) who I'm not really happy with, and who didn't pick it up as a fault when the safety tested it before return? I should get them to put this right, but I'm not sure I trust them to do a good job. Especially since I'm still in the middle of pointing out the deficiencies in their service to them.

Or do I take it to the independent repairer, that comes recommended, but I haven't used before and will definitely charge me for work that maybe Bosch would do for free?

What would you do?

Steve

 

[Argus]

.

The electrical fault is serious, especially as it doesn't knock out your breaker. Have you considered a faulty breaker?

However....... on the other hand........

If you are using high powered dust extract - such as an industrial 2 motor vac - it may be static from the particle laden air.
I have a Makita saw that does the same thing coupled to a big vac.

The solution is to reduce the air flow as much as possible.

Sorry, can't help with the other choice .

.

 

[Mister S]

Hi Argus

I don't think it's the breaker (on the consumer board), it works ok when i test it, plus I've tried a separate breaker in the socket itself, neither trip out.

I do use a twin motor extractor, but it's not that. Even without the extractor running, there is still a tingling sensation from the router casing, even when the router isn't running, just plugged in but switched off.

I've tried using the extractor to dislodge any dust from within the router (including running the router at the same) time but no joy.

Cheers
Steve

 

[9fingers]

Which model is it Steve?

 

[Mister S]

This is the GMF 1400 CE. 1400w and has the separate fixed and plunge bases. It's a few years old now but worth fixing if I can get it done, because it won't be cheap to replace.

Steve

 

[AES]

@Mr. S,

To me the most important point is what you haven't told us - are you a "professional" who needs that tool daily/weekly? Or are you a hobbyist like me, where apart from a bit of frustration it doesn't really matter if it takes 1 week or 1 month to repair.

If it were me, having paid my money to Bosch originally, and having found that they have not done the job properly in several respects (packing, despatch address, plus probable/possible electrical fault still ptresent after check) then I'm just that sort of stubborn individual who would keep on pressing them to sort it all out, no matter how long it took them. But as said, as a hobbyist I can afford to take that approach.

But if I needed the tool "tomorrow" to earn my living with then it would be off to the recommended independent repairer and be prepared to pay them (but PLUS a really stroppy letter to Bosch telling them what you're doing and why). If you can wait the letter until the billl from the independent comes you can put a copy of that into your "Stroppgram" for good measure.

"Best of British"
AES

 

[Mister S]

Hi AES

I'm just a hobbyist so time isn't critical. I'm in the middle of a project for a family member that I have a deadline for, but I can wait, it's just frustrating.

I would normally stick with Bosch and make them do it right. In fact I've been chasing them for a few weeks now just to get them to acknowledge they have a problem with their customer service, even though at the time I didn't think I would be using them in the near future.

I'm just caught between getting Bosch to do it right, but not quite trusting them, and getting it done "properly" by an independent . I think I'm edging towards getting it done right even if I have to pay. If I go don that route I will certainly be on the warpath with Bosch.

I first contacted Bosch on 20th June about not being happy with them. I finally got a reply on 27th July (after 2 phone calls and more emails from me) saying they were looking into it. Now its 5th August and no word from them. You can see why I'm not impressed with them.....

Cheers
Steve

 

[AES]

Hi Steve,

That certainly is a long time! I too would be VERYfrustrated, but sadly my personal experience is that stories like yours are all too common, and the bigger the company the worse it gets! In all sorts of fields too. (My goodness, I sound just like my Dad, whom I always thought of as a boring old fart when I was between the ages of about 15 to 25. Of course now he's dead and gone and I'm his sort of age myself I realise that he often did have a good point).

But as you do have time to spare (but do watch your blood pressure) how about this as a possible method?

1. Write them a letter (yup, snail mail!), send by Recorded Delivery.

2. In the letter say again why you're unhappy (poor packing, wrong return address, possible new electrical fault - caused by your tool rattling around in their poor packing? - and now ian nordinate length of time to reply).

3. Tell them that if you haven't heard from them by a certain date (I wouild suggest 1 week is long enough) then you'll send the tool to the independent for "re-repair".

4. In the same letter add that if by the time you get the tool back from the independent repairer (with the bill of course) that if you still haven't heard from them, then you'll start proceedings in the Small Claims court to recover your costs.

5. Those costs include both repairs plus a decent sum for your time in trying to get them to sort it out, plus postage, phone calls etc, plus another sum for your loss of enjoyment of the tool for (X?) weeks.

It still may not get them moving, and OK, with the 20 quid you first paid, plus all the rest above I guess we're "only" talking, say, 100 quid total here.

But that's not the point (to me). As my first post, I'm an awkward so and so and believe in sticking up for my rights.

In effect you're taking advantage of the fact that you're not a professional so you do have the time messing about to get them to perform properly. But as also said at the start of this post, watch your blood pressure.

Go for it would be my advice.

Whatever you decide, good luck.
AES

 

[Grahamshed]

I think AES has got that lot dead right.

 

[Mister S]

Hi AES

Thanks for the words of encouragement, and your plan looks to be a good one. I am always willing to stand my ground and fight for my rights, it's just that in this case I'm not sure that I want Bosch to do the repair. My thought is, if they can miss a safety issue the first time round, and don't really take much care when they pack it to send back to you, what is the quality of their work going to be like?

I haven't yet been in touch with them to say there is an issue so it's not like they are refusing to look at it. I'm pretty certain they would look at it under the 3 month repair warranty.

Sadly, you are right, it seems to be more common than it used to be. I've been trying to get a spare part for my bandaw from Record for the last 2 months and I'm no closer. They sent the wrong part, for the wrong model, then it was out of stock, in stock and delivered, turned out they had the wrong part so out of stock again, now waiting for them to get them in stock ........

Off for a weeks holiday from tomorrow, so will have a chance to mull it over. And let the blood pressure settle.

ps I've just been given the email address of the Bosch uk MD, something I've been trying to find for ages. A quick mail to them should get things moving.

Cheers
Steve

 

[AES]

Excellent Mister S. I was going to say earlier that particularly when sending a Recorded Delivery letter it's always better to write to a specific person rather than to the "Service Department" for example.

In this case the MD of Bosch UK (by name) sounds like the ideal recipient!

And as you've written your misgivings about Bosch so clearly here why not say the same thing in your letter? The fact that they've taken so very long to even start to respond suggests to me that whatever you've done (E-mail, telecon, etc) has just ended up in their round "laugh & tear up file".

Enjoy your holiday and "keep the blood pressure down".

;-)

As before, good luck.
AES

 

[9fingers]

Having looked at the circuit for that model, the switch is a single pole one and is fitted in the neutral lead.
This is why the op can feel a tingle with the router plugged in and yet not switched on.
There is no earth lead, so the design should provide double insulation to any exposed metalwork. Looking at the drawings, the motor is fitted inside an insulated sleeve for this purpose.
The fault will either be mildly conductive dust bridging from an electrical connection to the case or a (very) high resistance leak from the field coils or in the armature. The armature is a very expensive part - to the extent that it might beyond economic repair.

If the OP pursues this as a second fault, Bosch are unlikely to cough up for this. My personal feeling is that chasing them on the basis of unsatisfactory/insufficient testing after the first repair whilst maintaining that the tingle problem has been there since it was returned but you have only just realised what it was etc etc has the best chance of success.

The switch is just over £5 plus vat and if the total repair was £20, there would have been only a matter of minutes of labour devoted to the repair & testing at typical workshop hourly rates.
Perhaps not an excuse for cutting down on the testing, but exhaustive testing would push the cost of repairs much higher.


Just my 2p

Bob

 

[Mister S]

Thanks Bob

Good of you to take the time to look into the wiring for my router. On balance, given that this could prove to be an (prohibitively) expensive repair, I think I will give Bosch the opportunity to put it right.

I will be going down the route you suggest and see what they come up with.

cheers
Steve

 

[AES]

@9fingers:
I have seen enough of your previous posts to appreciate that you're an expert in the field of electrical machines, so as such you know far more than I do in this area.

BUT I'd like to suggest another aspect: We assume that Mister S went to Bosch because they are (or should be) the experts on repairing their own machines. To me that implies that a) the technician assigned to the job would be well enough trained to know as soon as he picks the tool up that he's dealing with a double-insulated machine; b) that he's working from a properly-equipped work station (i.e. he has all necessary manuals, wiring diagrams, often-used spare parts, test equipment, etc, etc) at his finger tips.

Under those circumstances is it expecting too much to expect that said technician would put an air hose and/or stiff brush through the tool? And having done so, is it too much to expect he would have then used a "Wee Megger"(or whatever the modern equivalent may be) to do an insulation resistance check?

If the answers to those Qs is Yes, then surely that, say, 10 or 15minutes "extra work" (which should surely be standard practice every time a double-insulated tool is serviced?) would have added, at the most, another tenner to Mister S's repair bill? If it's more than my tenner guesstimate then I suggest that in common with so many other companys (especially tthe larger ones), Bosch's labour rate includes excessive overhead recovery - i.e. extra costs which so often have more to do with feeding the corporate egos of the top brass and the greed of the shareholders than it does with providing genuinely improved services to the paying customer.

But perhaps I'm wrong on all counts, especially on the more technical aspects of this "tingly fault", so perhaps Mister S should drop that aspect? Frankly I'm not sure.

But that still leaves us with a major name in its field improperly packing the tool for return AND then sending to the wrong address. Personnaly I feel quite justified in calling that very poor service by any reasonable standard. BUT then Mister S tells us that so far it's taken this big name 2 months to NOT provide an adequate response! That to me has turned "very poor service" into an abyssmal performance.

That was the thinking behind my suggestion that MisterS be "stubborn" and try to get his rights.

With respect,

AES

 

[Lons]

Hi Steve

I'd go straight to the top and I think this might be the guy worth sending an emailed letter to:

Bosch UK ( http://www.bosch.co.uk ) MD is :- Klaus Peter Fouquet - email:- [email protected]

I rarely buy Bosch these days following an extremely poor aftersales experience a few years ago.

I spent a lot of money on a "professional" electric hedgetrimmer which broke after only a few hours light use. They collected very quickly and promised turnaround in 3 days. A week later when chasing it they said it was in bits in their repairs dept and wasn't a valid warranty claim :roll: but failed to explain how a part of the gearing could have failed. Said it would cost me £90 to repair or they could "kindly" dispose of it for me, or charge me £20 to send it back in bits. My response was not polite but it took me another week with demands for a new replacement or full refund with the threat of legal action before they sent me a new one. Leaves a bitter taste and lost them numerous potential tool sales.

Decent stuff - cr*p service and attitude!


Bob

 

[AES]

What Lons said, except that I'd turn his suggested E-mail into a paper letter sent by Recorded Delivery. Of course, having mailed the letter you could then send the E-mail telling him that a paper version is already in the post to him by Recorded Delivery.

AES

 

[Lons]

What Lons said, except that I'd turn his suggested E-mail into a paper letter sent by Recorded Delivery. Of course, having mailed the letter you could then send the E-mail telling him that a paper version is already in the post to him by Recorded Delivery.

AES

That's exactly what I do when needs arise except I don't bother recorded del.

I write the letter, email it to the MD and usually send a copy to customer services so they are aware it's gone to the boss (or more likely his PA) which makes sure it is given priority. I also post the original to the MD.
My reasoning is that they can't deny receipt of 2 or even 3 comunications where they might with 1. If I don't get an acknowlegement within 7 days, I would ALWAYS follow it up with a stronger email stating how surprised I am that a company of such a stature hadn't replied. Only needed to do that with ALDI but the result was then immediate.

It's never failed. Worked for me with BT, Co-Op Electrical, Panasonic and very recently ALDI ( but then I'm just a complaining pain in the a*se :wink: ).

Bob

 

[9fingers]

Hi AES,
I did not mean to suggest that anything about the service Steve received from Bosch was satisfactory.
I only looked at the stated price, and that of the new switch and realised that there was precious little scope for much labour in the price.
They may well have done a high voltage leakage test and it passed at the time.
Any reputable service shop would have kept records of what they did.
I'm not sure if I would have expected a general clean up any further than that needed to effect the repair.

I fully support the approach of returning it and simply suggested an approach that would have a better chance of getting the repair done FOC.

Although in a completely different field, I've been appalled at the state some customers return items for repair. Not saying that Steve's router was sent back dirty however.

I guess, I'm lucky in being able to test/repair most things so I've never been in a position to deal with the repair arm of any organisation,


Bob

 

[AES]

Hullo Bob,

Sorry if the tone of my response came across wrongly. Mister S should IMHO DEFINITELY follow your (much more knowlegable) advice when it comes to getting something back off Bosch for the "tingly fault".

Going off topic a bit now, what you say about the condition of some items returned for service reminds me of someone I once knew who worked in the Service Dept of Fergusson, the radio & TV makers. He had a whole fund of stories, 2 of which stick in my mind even today:

- the customer who took his transistor radio (this is the '60s) into his garagae while he worked under his car. He then rolled the car off the ramps right across the radio, then sent it back in 2 separate pieces enquiring if they could fix it!

- or there's the people who took their radio to the beach with them and then it came onto rain (I guess they were holidaying in England!). Anyway, as the radio was rather damp they decided to stand it in front of the guest house gas fire to dry off. But they forgot all about it until the smell of smouldering plastic alerted them. Seeing the thing now smoking furiously they grabbed the first thing to hand to put the fire out - a bowl of trifle! They sent that back asking what could be done. My mate did not tell me how they answered!

;-)

AES

 

[Mister S]

Trust me, AES, I regard my router as being fragile, and took great care to pack it carefully with lots of protection. Definitely in one piece and definitely no trifle involved.

Cheers
Steve