Screwdriver bits

[Baldhead]

I'm putting up a pagoda and doing some fence repairs, I seem to be going through a lot of screwdriver bits, tbh the ones I have are just the cheap sort from Toolstation, so my question is, are wira bits worth 10 times the price, or what does anyone recommend?
Cheers
Stew
Edit. I'm not using an impact driver just a 18v Makita drill/driver.

 

[undergroundhunter]

I've used these http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-pozi-screwdriver-bit-box-pz-2-x-25mm-pk25/99783 for a while and while i'm not a professional using them all day every day I've only snapped/mangled one in 4 years of moderate use.

Matt

 

[wide74]

For general every day use in a diy sense no they aren't. I use them daily for trade use and the best I've found so far are the diamond bit ones made by Wira I think, or the dewalt bits made for impact drivers. The standard dewalt bits are OK though for the money but I use 3 or 4 a day compared to one every 2-3 days with the diamond ones. Oh and make sure you use the right bit for the right screw......sounds obvious but you would be amazed! PZ2 bit in a PZ3 screw means instant bit destruction!

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[bugbear]

The standard dewalt bits are OK though for the money but I use 3 or 4 a day compared to one every 2-3 days with the diamond ones.

What the hell is the "wear mode" that's destroying bits?!

Bit goes in slot(s), screw is turned, bit is removed. How does the bit wear or become damaged?

BugBear

 

[Eric The Viking]

Diamond ones last many times better than ordinary ones. That's good for cost, battery life, and the work looks better as screwheads get less damage.

I was put onto them 30 years ago by a kitchen maker/fitter, when they were uncommon and a lot more expensive than they are now (he also had the first battery powered screwdrivers I ever saw). I bought two back then and actually found one in a toolbox tray recently. Of course those are worn out, but they lasted and lasted.

Now I use Wera ones as they seem to have taken market dominance. I keep one Phillips in the set, just in case, but mainly use #2 Pozi. And I'd never purposefully go back to ordinary bits.

Bear in mind that the Pozi shape was designed to cam-out (supposedly once the correct torque was reached). Phillips do drive better, but in my experience both screwheads and driver damage more easily. The only difficulty I now have is keeping track of individual bits, with a view to chucking them out.

I don't think they wear much, but the surface of the diamond drivers gets clogged with metal (zinc plating?) from the screwheads and after a while they don't work as well. I discovered some conc. hydrochloric acid in the back of the garage yesterday (don't ask), so I might have a go at dip-cleaning some old ones, to see if they can be rejuvenated.

Try one diamond bit, ideally in a bit holder (they do seem to work better that way). I'd be amazed if you go back to ordinary ones afterwards.

E.

PS:i have also found they're great for removing old damaged screws you might encounter, say in the sort of old house we have that's been patched up a lot over the years.

 

[bugbear]

Bear in mind that the Pozi shape was designed to cam-out (supposedly once the correct torque was reached). Phillips do drive better...

Au contraire, Blackadder:

The [Phillips] design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was actually a deliberate feature of the design, for the purpose of assembling aluminum aircraft without overtightening the fasteners.[11] Evidence is lacking for this specific narrative and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents.[12] However, a subsequent refinement to the original design described in US Patent #2,474,994[13][14][15] describes this feature.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... s#Phillips)

Its [Pozidrive's] advantage over Phillips drives is its decreased likelihood to cam out, which allows greater torque to be applied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... s#Pozidriv

(both statements are fully cited)

BugBear

 

[Distinterior]

Try a Wera impact bit. Even though you are not using an Impact Driver, the bits are far stronger for obvious reasons and will last for ages. They do eventually wear out, but I have never managed to break one and I do use them in an Impact Driver.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Bear in mind that the Pozi shape was designed to cam-out (supposedly once the correct torque was reached). Phillips do drive better...

Au contraire, Blackadder...

I sit corrected, but...

... IIRC, Phillips "blades" have parallel surfaces, Pozi taper. And Phillips are used in manufacturing, with torque-measuring air tools.

 

[DTR]

... IIRC, Phillips "blades" have parallel surfaces, Pozi taper.

Is it not the other way round??

 

[Beau]

I am a big fan of these http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-torsi ... pz2-950708. No need for a separate holder and last a good long time but this is with an impact driver. I know in the bad old days pre the impact driver I chewed through more bits due to cam out. Quality bits helped or use torx head screws. Toolstation do a cheap range of torx screws these days but not the best threads in the world though

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I tried a diamond bit from a very good manufacturer (I forget which, but I remember it being a good one) and I have to say I didn't find it significantly better, certainly no where near enough to justify the price difference.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I am a big fan of these http://www.axminster.co.uk/makita-torsi ... pz2-950708. No need for a separate holder and last a good long time but this is with an impact driver. I know in the bad old days pre the impact driver I chewed through more bits due to cam out. Quality bits helped or use torx head screws. Toolstation do a cheap range of torx screws these days but not the best threads in the world though

First customer review wasn't very good, though
"the three bits lasted 2 weeks with a Makita impact driver going to return for a refund"

 

[Eric The Viking]

I tried a diamond bit from a very good manufacturer (I forget which, but I remember it being a good one) and I have to say I didn't find it significantly better, certainly no where near enough to justify the price difference.

I am genuinely surprised by that. Maybe I'd only used rubbish ones beforehand (think not though).

On which drivers taper, I'm sure the Phillips ones I used to have for electronics were parallel, but they were in smaller sizes. I rarely fix plasterboard - those screws usually have a Phillips head. Is that tapered?

[Edit] The Makita ones linked to above are definitely Pozi and parallel, BUT the 45deg offset splines taper. So I'm wrong (not the first time), but experience is that Pozi ones slip more readily than Phillips (with a proper Phillips driver), but any damage to the head and the Phillips ones become impossible.

Still rooting for diamond-faced drivers though - brilliant things. And I've realised (I think), why bit holders work better than just chucking a 2" bit: The better the bit fits into the screw (alignment), the better it all works. Because a holder retains the driver reasonably loosely, there's room for it to pivot slightly. So it acts a bit like a universal joint. Coupling that with the strong magnet (so the screw starts better connected to the driver), the whole thing works better in most circumstances. Couldn't see the point until I got a decent one as part of a kit and noticed the improvement.

I think I do get slightly poorer performance with diamond bits and stainless screws, possibly because they're softer than the tempered steel BZP ones.

 

[Beau]

I tried a diamond bit from a very good manufacturer (I forget which, but I remember it being a good one) and I have to say I didn't find it significantly better, certainly no where near enough to justify the price difference.

I had the same experience with a Wera one. Good but not good enough for the money

 

[woodpig]

I read many years ago that Philips screws were designed for easy assembly and designed to cam out to prevent damage to fasteners and drivers in the days before torque limiters were used. It's interesting that Pozidrive were designed to be less likely to (but would still) cam out compared to Philips screws. The intention of the manufacturers though is a moot point as I think we all know that both Philips and Pozidrive screws will cam out quite readily. I've certainly come across hundreds of damaged Pozidrive screws over the years due to camming out. Add rusty screws or those that have been painted over and the shortcomings of both Philips and Pozidrive are quite apparent. The Canadians and to some degree the Americans are better off with Robertson screws. From Wiki:

"Robertson screws are commonplace in Canada though they have been used elsewhere and have become much more common in other countries in recent decades. Robertson screwdrivers are easy to use one-handed, because the tapered socket tends to retain the screw, even if it is shaken.They also allow for the use of angled screw drivers and trim head screws. The socket-headed Robertson screws are self-centering, reduce cam out, stop a power tool when set, and can be removed if painted over or old and rusty. In industry, they speed up production and reduce product damage".

Guess what I bought when I visited Canada fifteen years ago...

The other screws (in larger sizes) that I like are the hexagon headed ones used with a socket - normally included with the screws when you buy them. For engineering projects I prefer socket (hexagon) or Torx screws.

I avoid Philips and Pozidrive whenever possible.

 

[Distinterior]

A set such as this will last a LONG time. I have had mine for years now, and I'm still using some of the original bits. The bit holder is really strong!!!!

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Wera ... iece%20Set

Here's another one.

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Wera ... %20Pz%20Tx

 

[lurker]

Given that I'm more likely to loose a bit than wreck it I tend to go for the toolstation cheapos.
I did find some heavily discounted de walt on amazon a few weeks ago (x25 pozi for less than a fiver) and they are a tad better, I agree.

 

[lurker]

The standard dewalt bits are OK though for the money but I use 3 or 4 a day compared to one every 2-3 days with the diamond ones.

What the hell is the "wear mode" that's destroying bits?!

Bit goes in slot(s), screw is turned, bit is removed. How does the bit wear or become damaged?

BugBear

Most of us don't spend 3 days agonising over driving a screw into a bit of wood BB we just use brute force and move onto the next job. :lol:

 

[bugbear]

The standard dewalt bits are OK though for the money but I use 3 or 4 a day compared to one every 2-3 days with the diamond ones.

What the hell is the "wear mode" that's destroying bits?!

Bit goes in slot(s), screw is turned, bit is removed. How does the bit wear or become damaged?

BugBear

Most of us don't spend 3 days agonising over driving a screw into a bit of wood BB we just use brute force and move onto the next job. :lol:

In, turn, out.

No damage, no "3 days".

LOL right back atcha'

BugBear

 

[Eric The Viking]

I agree - I don't think the Wera diamond bits I use now are as good as the original diamond ones I bought about 25 years ago. Sadly I don't know who made those, or if they still exist, let alone make to the same quality.

I still find diamond bits better than the alternatives, and part of the point is that I can't afford to chew a screw and then not be able to replace it. For that alone it's worth the premium.