Saw stop

[Steve Maskery]

I'm still staring at an exposed blade though.

I'm not, when I use mine, it has a built-in guard.

 

[OscarG]

I'm still staring at an exposed blade though.

I'm not, when I use mine, it has a built-in guard.

Do you have a picture of that Steve? Maybe I can mod mine.

 

[Jacob]

I use a sliding table with a fence - which is much the same as a crosscut sledge. I use it with the fence behind the workpiece which may seem counter intuitive.
I hold the workpiece up to it with my left hand (well away from the blade) and my right hand with a push stick pushing the workpiece up to the fence, as close to the blade as I want, quite safely. No need for toggles or any other holding mech, though I might add a hold down for anything a bit complicated like a long mitre cut which could go off line if not well held.
One push stick but no part of my anatomy any nearer than say 10" from the blade, at any point.
Offcuts flicked away with the push stick.

 

[johnnyb]

Mostly unbraked machines with massive blunt blades dodgy switching etc. The fence on it's own was innocuous it's just everything else. The fence on my dw746 can be drawn back I guess. But I'm used to adding a few thou splay when I'm setting it up( once every four years)
If I was sawing rough and badly dried planks it may be an advantage on a saw that only rips this rough stuff. But on most table saws it kills the versatility.
One aspect of american sawing I've never adopted is the crosscut sled. My saw comes with a big sliding table which I use for panels and a mitre gauge for smaller bits.
I've still got the 52inch fence rails but I've never had the space to use them. So this is a side table and fence rail that allows a 52inch rip ie 8×4 in half. Is this safe? Is it something thats seen outside of the usa. A big Euro panel saw uses the sliding table for that job giving an edge at 90 to the side.

 

[ScaredyCat]

No it's a value for money decision. How many nasty cuts would sawstop prevent - zero apparently, according to the above, though it would limit their severity. As a safety measure this is not very impressive!
Ditto push sticks: 100% - no cuts at all.

How many air bags would be deployed if people paid attention whilst driving? None. People make mistakes, sawstop may well help when you make that mistake. Just because you think it's wasted money, doesn't mean it's the case. The stopping time is related to the speed of the blade, say it's spinning at 4k rpm, it'd stop in around 1/3 of a revolution, and it's retracted too.

as a side note, I'll use this quote* from Rob Cosman sawstop review ..

I'm a disabled vet. I've had major surgery on my right shoulder 7 times. Sometimes my nerves and muscle don't do what I tell them to do. I've tripped my saw 3 times in 5 years. Every time i have, not only was I left with a very minor scratch, but Sawstop replaced my break for free.

* It's on the Internet, it must be true


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[Jacob]

No it's a value for money decision. How many nasty cuts would sawstop prevent - zero apparently, according to the above, though it would limit their severity. As a safety measure this is not very impressive!
Ditto push sticks: 100% - no cuts at all.

How many air bags would be deployed if people paid attention whilst driving? None.

Not so. Road accidents are caused by many other factors than just you yourself not paying attention. Unlike using a table saw, though I suppose it's possible that someone might goose you while you are at it!

.........
as a side note, I'll use this quote* from Rob Cosman sawstop review ..

I'm a disabled vet. I've had major surgery on my right shoulder 7 times. Sometimes my nerves and muscle don't do what I tell them to do. I've tripped my saw 3 times in 5 years. Every time i have, not only was I left with a very minor scratch, but Sawstop replaced my break for free.

* It's on the Internet, it must be true

Sounds distinctly like a sales pitch to me!

 

[johnnyb]

Solely from an engineering perspective sawstop is a remarkable thing. When the explosion goes off and fires the alloy into the teeth wow the blade is wobbling like jelly.
I have no issues with it really. Now they need to work on one for every type of machine.
I do know the saws will be top notch though.
I'm surprised there bothering with Europe though. Now there owned by festool perhaps changes are happening.

 

[OscarG]

Solely from an engineering perspective sawstop is a remarkable thing. When the explosion goes off and fires the alloy into the teeth wow the blade is wobbling like jelly.
I have no issues with it really. Now they need to work on one for every type of machine.
I do know the saws will be top notch though.
I'm surprised there bothering with Europe though. Now there owned by festool perhaps changes are happening.

Agree. The speed with which it reacts and the g-forces involved are incredible. I love the slo-mo vids of it being activated. I'm still uncomfortable watching the bloke put his finger into the blade I know he kind of cheats, introducing his finger, real real slow.

I'd get one for sure if they release them in the UK.

 

[Noel]

I'm all for pushsticks, always use two when cutting.

How does a pushstick save you when using a crosscut sled though?

I tried to make my sled as safe as possible, toggle clamps to hold the workpiece, both my hands are always at edge of sled when pushing. I'm still staring at an exposed blade though. If something freakish was to happen there's nothing to stop it cutting flesh. In that scenario Sawstop could make a life changing difference.

Oscar, if you're so concerned (as you rightly should be) you really should have a guard of some description on your sled. Not hard to do.

Edit- I'll get a picture shortly for you.

 

[ScaredyCat]

I'm still staring at an exposed blade though.

I'm not, when I use mine, it has a built-in guard.

Do you have a picture of that Steve? Maybe I can mod mine.

Have a look at William Ng on youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbG-n--LFgQ ) at ~ 33 mins in..

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[Noel]

Here you go Oscar. Try and use a polycarbonate like Lexan, Macrolon etc rather than an acrylic like Perspex. Polycarbonate is tougher, will not shatter like acrylic although it is prone to scratching. You can go further and cover the whole sled (may limit stock size) or have a box type arrangement that moves up and down but what I have I'm happy with:

Hmm, needs a bit of freshening up.....getting a bit battered. But it's served me well for last 15 yrs or so.

 

[Jacob]

This is my basic cross cutting set up - but lots of variations possible.
It's a sliding table but if it was a sledge I'd do it the same way with the workpiece pushed up to the fence and held with left hand and push stick in the right i.e. much simpler than most of the sledge set ups you see.
I can also hold down with a cam device as shown in 3rd pic, but could do similar with a sledge if necessary, cams, toggles, G clamps etc.
Safe to flip offcuts out of the way with the push stick. Would be safe even without the crown guard but I'd leave it on be default, unless it was in the way e.g. doing housings over the top of the blade without riving knife

 

[OscarG]

Have a look at William Ng on youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbG-n--LFgQ ) at ~ 33 mins in..

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Thank you, but I've seen that vid. I copied his "5 cut" method (think everyone on YouTube has!), liked his overall design and tried to copy it but realised it doesn't leave a method for clamping the workpiece. When he cuts (can't see it in that vid) he holds the workpiece with his hands, that was something I wanted to avoid.

Here's what I have, it's not finished, since this pic was taken I added a safety box in the back like Mr Ng.

allows me to cut little pieces like this, without my hands anywhere near the blade, if I had a perspex guard it would get in the way.

the downside is blade is exposed, not sure how I can have both clamps and a perspex guard? :?

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'll get my camera out.

 

[Noel]

Oscar, read my post, don't use Perspex. Safety.

And not the best design of sled, metal in front of the blade not a good idea and the clamps, do you need so many? If any?

 

[OscarG]

Oscar, read my post, don't use Perspex. Safety.

Noted. Will use polycarbonate if I go down that route.

And not the best design of sled, metal in front of the blade not a good idea and the clamps, do you need so many? If any?

When you mean metal in front of blade, you mean the toggle clamp?

Well, I've seen vids with people holding workpieces with their hands, didn't like that. Seen vids where when cutting small pieces they used the rubber end of a pencil to hold the workpiece.... especially didn't like that! I figured 3 were handy, the right one prob only used to hold right side workpiece with dado type stuff (haven't tried it yet).

I kind of wanted something where I could quickly clamp it all down and be totally hands free except for pushing the sled at the extreme edges.

I tried to take elements from this fella's sled > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtwK9X8o1Gw

Maybe a removable polycarb' guard is way to go.

 

[Jacob]

They all look so complicated. What's wrong with just a base, a fence (adjustable or not), a pushstick, plus one or two hold-downs/ hold-ins cams etc . Thats what I was trying to show with my pics of sliding table. A sled is just a DIY sliding table.
What makes it easy is pushing the workpiece up to the fence instead of the other way around, which was a tip I got from the manual with my machine.

 

[D_W]

Losing, people....losing. People lose their fingers. Loose fingers would be an interesting party trick.

Loose the hounds....and your fingers!!

Sounds like a war move or something.

 

[D_W]

In regard to the first post, it's interesting in the US that you can get your pants sued off as a table saw manufacture, and our safety is generally behind europe.

But you can walk into a store here, buy a 395xp husky and call yourself a handy man and start cutting trees with a full chisel chain without any training. That is a death waiting to happen.

The sawstops here are a boon for beginners and shops where people work long hours, as well as schools. But there's little woodwork done with table saws like that in any shops these days. Maybe on job sites here and there, but schools and beginners (and perhaps some shared spaces).

If I had any of those three, I'd consider it, but like jacob, I use push sticks (I tend to work by hand without using the TS, but if I'm in a rush) and just like a preflight, I always think about the stuff that can nail you when I'm using the saw. I have to admit that I don't particularly enjoy using 5 horsepower saws with no guards or splitters. I got an early taste of that by absorbing the kickback from one on a wide panel - luckily wide enough that when it twisted and came back at me, my hands were far enough from the blade that they didn't get pulled in.

 

[OscarG]

While we're talking about safety, one thing that's always puzzled me.

You're advised to stand out of the line of fire so if a board does kickback it doesn't hit you.

How are are you supposed to push a board forwards and against the fence without standing behind the saw?!