Saugages, how do you cut yours ??.

[OPJ]

Anyway, to get the "Visa" to EU he shall have to change a few things like "Adjustable fence" (short fence) with two positions, "High" and "Low" and of course the blade must "stop within 10 seconds" and maybe more...

niki

You're right about the braking times, Niki, but I don't think the a newly manufactured saw has to have a short fence option - I don't think any one of Record Power's table saws have a short fence, for example.

There's also a video on YouTube for a similar design suited to the bandsaw. How the blade doesn't break, I just don't know. :shock:

 

[Niki]

Tnimble
I worked with the American FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) for many years and as I know, they are very straight forward...
They just state the requirement and leave it to the manufacturer to decide how to comply with the regulation. That's why, Boeing, DC and Lockheed have deferent solutions to the same requirement.

I believe that it's the same about machinery requirement


Olly
As I said, the USA OSHA safety regulations are free and visible to anyone....

The UK (or EU) regulations are "secret" and only the "rich guys" can see them....

When I see the "Circular saw benches - Safe working practices" (PDF) issued by SHE http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf ...and I can see the Short fence and High/low fence (among the riving knife, guard, push sticks etc) and I see it implemented on my table saw...I assume that those are the regulations...if they are only recommendations...all the SHE and the EU safety comity are one big waste of money...

niki

 

[tnimble]

Tnimble
I worked with the American FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) for many years and as I know, they are very straight forward...
They just state the requirement and leave it to the manufacturer to decide how to comply with the regulation. That's why, Boeing, DC and Lockheed have deferent solutions to the same requirement.

I believe that it's the same about machinery requirement

Alot easier then in EU countries.

The UK (or EU) regulations are "secret" and only the "rich guys" can see them....

The regulations are free of charge, but they only refer to publications by the country's standadarisation institute who in turn are implementations of the european standarisation publications. These publications are mostly very expensive.

When I see the "Circular saw benches - Safe working practices" (PDF) issued by SHE http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf ...and I can see the Short fence and High/low fence (among the riving knife, guard, push sticks etc) and I see it implemented on my table saw...

Its not only the HSE that is involved.
You have the HSE (or the ARBO in the Netherlands) that informs workers, employees and manufactures about safety iseaus, registers incidents and so on.

The BSI (formerly the NSB) (or the NEN for the Neterlands) implements and adopts the publications of the CEN as national standardards and commercially publish them. It are these standarss that are refered to by legislation. Also they advise the CEN.

The CEN publish the euopean wide standards including the health and safety standards. Some specific fields have specialized bodies that also publish standards like the CENELEC for everything that involves electricity.


To be able to know if legislation is met to sell a product in for instance the UK you must but all appropiate BSxxxxx publications from the BSI. If one also wants o sell in Germany also all the appropiate DIN publication must be bought. etc.

I assume that those are the regulations...if they are only recommendations...all the SHE and the EU safety comity are one big waste of money...
niki

The BS and EN publications are only recommendations. The countries legislation points out which articles from which release of a standards publication is regulatory.

 

[Niki]

The BS and EN publications are only recommendations. The countries legislation points out which articles from which release of a standards publication is regulatory.

I don't know who are the BS and the EN but, I'm not so sure that every EU country can "choose" what is "legal" or "illegal" for the country otherwise it is really waste of time and money of the EU Parliament and comities that are sitting in Brussels and paid by...us...

For example; if UK has a safety regulation that demands all the table saws to be equipped with Riving knife...but Netherlands does not demand it...so, a good Chinese importer, is importing millions of table saws without riving knife into Netherlands, and from there it's only a matter of crossing the channel or crossing the border to any other EU country that this product is illegal...

The border between Poland and Germany is totally open (since a few months)...if Poland will import something that is legal in Poland but illegal in Germany...we really did not do nothing by sitting in Brussels and "offering" the EU countries some safety regulations that if they want, they adopt...if not - not...otherwise, the product can spread from the "legal" country, to all the 27 EU countries...

Please have a look at this site, http://www.azcentral.com/business/consu ... tml?&wired
it's only about toys and it has to be approved by all the 27 EU countries but, I think that ones it is approved...no imports of those toys to any of the EU countries...if not, the Chinese can import, say, to Romania or Poland that maybe are "legal" for that toy and from there, spread it all over EU...

If, for example, the UK safety regulations (I'm giving the UK as an example because I don't read other languages) are demanding "Short fence" but Poland does not...I can import to Poland table saws with normal long fence and just "cross the channel" and sell them all over UK (or all EU) even if they are illegal in UK...and until the SHE guys will move their xxx from the office to check what is sold in the market, already thousands of table saws were sold to home owners and I don't think that the UK SHE will like it even if the home owners does not have to obey the safety regulations (or they cannot be implemented on them).

niki

 

[tnimble]

I don't know who are the BS and the EN but, I'm not so sure that every EU country can "choose" what is "legal" or "illegal" for the country otherwise it is really waste of time and money of the EU Parliament and comities that are sitting in Brussels and paid by...us...

Its not that they choose what is 'legal' or 'illegal'. They choose what to adopt and integrate into the local standards. The more that is adopted and implemented the more the standards between EU countries become harmonized. This has little to do with EU and local Parlement. Only part of the standards publications of the CEN and BSI have legal and binding status. Those parts which have this status are often older releases of the publication. Manufactures, installers and sellers are bound to obey these but are encouraged to fully use the most recent.

For example; if UK has a safety regulation that demands all the table saws to be equipped with Riving knife...but Netherlands does not demand it...so, a good Chinese importer, is importing millions of table saws without riving knife into Netherlands, and from there it's only a matter of crossing the channel or crossing the border to any other EU country that this product is illegal...

It would be legal to buy such a saw abroad, but its illegal to use it in the UK. It is the task of the HSE to overlook this. When an worker has an accident with this saw or there is suspicion of this saw being used the company will be fined.

The border between Poland and Germany is totally open (since a few months)...if Poland will import something that is legal in Poland but illegal in Germany...we really did not do nothing by sitting in Brussels and "offering" the EU countries some safety regulations that if they want, they adopt...if not - not...otherwise, the product can spread from the "legal" country, to all the 27 EU countries...

Please have a look at this site, http://www.azcentral.com/business/consu ... tml?&wired
it's only about toys and it has to be approved by all the 27 EU countries but, I think that ones it is approved...no imports of those toys to any of the EU countries...if not, the Chinese can import, say, to Romania or Poland that maybe are "legal" for that toy and from there, spread it all over EU...

If, for example, the UK safety regulations (I'm giving the UK as an example because I don't read other languages) are demanding "Short fence" but Poland does not...I can import to Poland table saws with normal long fence and just "cross the channel" and sell them all over UK (or all EU) even if they are illegal in UK...and until the SHE guys will move their xxx from the office to check what is sold in the market, already thousands of table saws were sold to home owners and I don't think that the UK SHE will like it even if the home owners does not have to obey the safety regulations (or they cannot be implemented on them).

niki

Very true. A company in the UK may not resell the saw in the UK no matter if they source the saw from poland or any other country around the world. A UK based company may not buy a saw to be used in poland (or any country) that does not meet UK legislation. If a private person buys the saw directly from a foreign country nothing can or will be done. When an accident happens cost could potentially not be covered. When an accident happens to another person the private owner can be held responsible.

The same is for all products. If I was to buy my elekctrical wiring in the UK to be used in the Neterlands and my home burns down due to electrical fire my insurance would not pay out. I would have to prove that the BS7671 is equal to the NEN1010. The KEMA institute has to test the product. Vice versa if you would buy electrical wiring in the Netherlands you would have to have it tested by ASTA-BEAB. Products that carry the logos of the certification institute are already testen and may be freely used and sold.