Saugages, how do you cut yours ??.

[ProShop]

Interesting demo of the new Contractors table saw from SawStop (American). it gets interesting after about 2mins ish

They'll be over here eventually I suspect.

SawStop

It's not an entirely new idea, been out a while I saw this device fitted to a different saw table, this looks much improved.






..

 

[Slim]

Safety features like this are all well and good, but where is the crown guard and short fence? :roll:

 

[ProShop]

Safety features like this are all well and good, but where is the crown guard and short fence? :roll:

Only in America :roll: . notice the quick release on the riving knife, that's relatively new, they don't usually have even those fitted until just recently, but by making them quick release it appeases the masses. As for short fences :roll: . Not many will be put back on once taken off. Still different countries = different standards

 

[wizer]

it is supplied with a guard, tho I can't understand why they don't show it in all their promotional pictures.

 

[Niki]

Safety features like this are all well and good, but where is the crown guard and short fence? :roll:

You totally missed the point......If they will use crown guard (blade guard in American) short fence and some push sticks....what for is the need for sawstop....

But, this guy knows his people...according to Kelly Mehler, only 5% are using the crown guard so, there are many potential buyers even if it's so expensive...
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/artic ... y?id=14789

On other forums when I challenged that "There is no one operation that I can not do with my hands "far, far and away" from the blade"....nobody could bit me.

Anyway, to get the "Visa" to EU he shall have to change a few things like "Adjustable fence" (short fence) with two positions, "High" and "Low" and of course the blade must "stop within 10 seconds" and maybe more...

niki

 

[Slim]

Safety features like this are all well and good, but where is the crown guard and short fence? :roll:

You totally missed the point......If they will use crown guard (blade guard in American) short fence and some push sticks....what for is the need for sawstop....

Exactly Niki. That seems to be the attitude in America. The sawstop might prevent you cutting your fingers off, but it won't stop a piece of wood embeding itself in your face after kickback.

 

[Richard Findley]

How does it know :?: :?:

I noticed he didn't risk his own finger.... just in case :wink: but that still doesn't tell me... how does it know what it's cutting :?: :shock: :?:

 

[Niki]

How does it know :?: :?:

I noticed he didn't risk his own finger.... just in case :wink: but that still doesn't tell me... how does it know what it's cutting :?: :shock: :?:

Hi Richard

It's a computer system that feels moisture level....that's the reason that you have to switch off the sawstop feature in case you are cutting wet wood...

Of course he will not risk his finger...you never know if and when the computer or any other component of the "system" will fail...and than...we shall have to make all the video again... :lol:

I said it in other forums....the best way to avoid accidents is by using safe table saw technics and not relaying on gadgets that can fail exactly when you need them...

niki

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Niki,

I totally agree on the safety points. It's a clever bit of kit though! Looks like when you activate the emergency brake thingy the whole thing is pretty much scrap metal :?: Is that right??

Richard

 

[Slim]

Hi Niki,

I totally agree on the safety points. It's a clever bit of kit though! Looks like when you activate the emergency brake thingy the whole thing is pretty much scrap metal :?: Is that right??

Richard

No, it just ruins the blade and the aluminium brake that the blade is embedded in. Both of which are replaceable.

 

[Richard Findley]

So only a moisture detecting saw blade and a brand new patented brake gizzmo.... that sounds expensive!!! :lol:

 

[tnimble]

He doesn't use his finger because you don't have to demonstrate you will only have a small cut instead of losing a finger.

The blade stops and retracks below the table when an electrical current flows between the saw blade and the table top. Contact meaning a portian of a blade tooth in contact with your finger. Depending on the moment of contact this can be the cutting tip or the back of the tip thus minor chip out of finger to nothing at all.


Mind that with utopian safe table saw techniques all guards are unnecessary things that can tempt you to take mor risk.


When such a saw would come over to Europe the electrical brake to stop the blade within 10 seconds rule should not apply any more. The fast stop is to prevent one cutting off their limbs after having used the saw. The sawstop type mechanism supersedes this 10s bracking action with a much faster brake and on top of that full blade retraction.

 

[Niki]

When such a saw would come over to Europe the electrical brake to stop the blade within 10 seconds rule should not apply any more. The fast stop is to prevent one cutting off their limbs after having used the saw. The sawstop type mechanism supersedes this 10s bracking action with a much faster brake and on top of that full blade retraction.

I'm not sure that you are correct...as long as the sawstop feature can be disabled...and it can be (for wet wood or others reasons) the "10 seconds" law is also disabled...and I don't think that SHE will agree...

As you know our TS are coming with riving knife and guard only....no anti-kickback pawls (fingers) but, the American OSHA (SHE) still demands the anti-kickback pawl without any connection if the saw is equipped with riving knife or splitter (and they know why...)

So the Americans are still getting the Bosch 4000 (the American brother of the GTS 10 that costs half price in USA :evil: ) with riving knife and...anti-kickback pawls...

Not so easy to change safety regulations...

niki

 

[Digit]

And what happens with the American's much loved Dado head fitted?
I've had a blade loosen with a 10 seconder fitted. Some form of positive lock would seem to be necessary.

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Hi Niki, as usual your comments are right, but it's not the regs that need changing but the users common sense, it would appear that in some countries sense is not so common.
regards,
Rich.

 

[Niki]

Digit
I scanned the EB PK 255 blade. As you can see, there are two holes near the center and one hole on the big washer (red arrows).

On the arbor, there is a pin that fits one of the blade holes and goes into the big washer to lock the blade so the nut will not open at the fast slow-down.

As I know, this pin is mandatory for blades bigger than 10" but EB decided to include it...

The reason that they prohibited the dado blade is first because of the forces that can open the arbor nut and, it can damage the motor because of the high stresses due to the high mass of the dado blade and the fast slow-down.

Of course I removed the pin so I can use other blades as well....never had the nut released...

Rich
I cannot agree with you more....so correct...

Regards
niki

 

[tnimble]

I'm not sure that you are correct...as long as the sawstop feature can be disabled...and it can be (for wet wood or others reasons) the "10 seconds" law is also disabled...and I don't think that SHE will agree...

When the overide is engaged for cutting cunductive materials the saw not retracking should only be active if the saw is active.

As you know our TS are coming with riving knife and guard only....no anti-kickback pawls (fingers) but, the American OSHA (SHE) still demands the anti-kickback pawl without any connection if the saw is equipped with riving knife or splitter (and they know why...)

So the Americans are still getting the Bosch 4000 (the American brother of the GTS 10 that costs half price in USA :evil: ) with riving knife and...anti-kickback pawls...

Not so easy to change safety regulations...

Its not always that it are the regulatory bodies. Some things are done only because its thought necessary whilst there is no rule demanding that specific thing. Sometimes rules are used without having the conditions to which the rule applies. Sometimes things are just implemented while in the specific situation it makes no sense and no dispensation is asked. Sometimes (especially with changes) rules are vague or their meaning misinterpreted and ill implemented.

 

[Niki]

Its not always that it are the regulatory bodies. Some things are done only because its thought necessary whilst there is no rule demanding that specific thing. Sometimes rules are used without having the conditions to which the rule applies. Sometimes things are just implemented while in the specific situation it makes no sense and no dispensation is asked. Sometimes (especially with changes) rules are vague or their meaning misinterpreted and ill implemented.

I don't know which of the regulations you mean but here is a "Copy & Past" from the USA OSHA safety regulations...

1910.213(c)(1)
Each circular hand-fed ripsaw shall be guarded by a hood which shall completely enclose that portion of the saw above the table and that portion of the saw above the material being cut. The hood and mounting shall be arranged so that the hood will automatically adjust itself to the thickness of and remain in contact with the material being cut but it shall not offer any considerable resistance to insertion of material to saw or to passage of the material being sawed. The hood shall be made of adequate strength to resist blows and strains incidental to reasonable operation, adjusting, and handling, and shall be so designed as to protect the operator from flying splinters and broken saw teeth. It shall be made of material that is soft enough so that it will be unlikely to cause tooth breakage. The hood shall be so mounted as to insure that its operation will be positive, reliable, and in true alignment with the saw; and the mounting shall be adequate in strength to resist any reasonable side thrust or other force tending to throw it out of line.

1910.213(c)(2)
Each hand-fed circular ripsaw shall be furnished with a spreader to prevent material from squeezing the saw or being thrown back on the operator. The spreader shall be made of hard tempered steel, or its equivalent, and shall be thinner than the saw kerf. It shall be of sufficient width to provide adequate stiffness or rigidity to resist any reasonable side thrust or blow tending to bend or throw it out of position. The spreader shall be attached so that it will remain in true alignment with the saw even when either the saw or table is tilted. The provision of a spreader in connection with grooving, dadoing, or rabbeting is not required. On the completion of such operations, the spreader shall be immediately replaced.

1910.213(c)(3)
Each hand-fed circular ripsaw shall be provided with nonkickback fingers or dogs so located as to oppose the thrust or tendency of the saw to pick up the material or to throw it back toward the operator. They shall be designed to provide adequate holding power for all the thicknesses of materials being cut.

1910.213(d)
Hand-fed crosscut table saws.

You can see the "original" here
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp ... &p_id=9837

Interestingly, the USA safety regulation are provided free on the internet but to see the EU safety regulations....you have to pay.... :x

Regards
niki

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Niki, as usual your comments are right, but it's not the regs that need changing but the users common sense, it would appear that in some countries sense is not so common.
regards,
Rich.

Have to agree here:

Common-Dog**** (Ex Navy types will know what I mean!) tells me not to use a saw without guards. It tells me to keep clear of possible missiles that can be thrown back and to use push-sticks and hold downs if necessary.

The only table saw I ever had with a 'brake', used to drive me mad when I switched it off. The machine would shake itself almost to pieces and deafen me with the clatter. I had to set the darn saw up again after a couple of days use.

I got rid of it and went back to my Coronet 10" saw. No brake on it, but 'Common-Dog****' tells me that when I switch off the saw, I must wait until it stops before I put my hands near the blade. I isolate ALL my machines, when I have finished for the day, so I have to check all is well, before I use them next time. I don't leave them running when not actually cutting, although that's mainly because I am mean with electricity!

As for the longer ripping jobs, I find the bandsaw is ideal and use it whenever I can; a much more reassuring machine. I won't tempt providence, but I've been using machines for thirty plus years now. I like to think I have 'Common-Dog****'!

Regards...
John

 

[tnimble]

I don't know which of the regulations you mean...

In general

...but here is a "Copy & Past" from the USA OSHA safety regulations...
...

Interestingly, the USA safety regulation are provided free on the internet but to see the EU safety regulations....you have to pay.... :x

And they are expensive too. And often multiple documents apply which cannot be obtained on a per section basis.

Besides operator safety regulations, multiple documents are in effect ranging from regulations on machining equipment, mechanical devices, electrical devices, used materials, commercial goods, fabrication etc.

The above USA text is very sparse. For instance the regulation on a splitter would most probably state a few formulas, tables and or graphs on splitter thickness, strength and flexibility. Would give minimum and maximum allow dimensions for height and width. Would state various forces the mounting mechanism must be able to endure and so on.