I have tried them and found the problem.
the digital gadget has a level of error. I was moving it from one end to the other end and turning it 180 degree to face me when I was standing in the middle so I was causing the error to duplicate.
Sad story of my uneven bench top
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the digital gadget has a level of error. I was moving it from one end to the other end and turning it 180 degree to face me when I was standing in the middle so I was causing the error to duplicate.
There is a relative structural stability built in the T and L shape profiles.
generally speaking there is more resistance and rigidity in the structure when forces applied to the width of them ( the same reason for having joist the way they are used)
So under normal circumstances with no load on them beside their own weight as a winding stick they are stable enough ( winding sticks are always supported on the boards to be checked.
Cheers
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
I'd make sure one wasn't resting centered on the bench, supported in the middle,
and the other with the ends resting like in the photo with the digital box.
Talking about winding sticks, I never seen one with a center line marking.
Suppose many use a good long level for that, so the bubble does that job.
Still I must make a short pair someday, as they would come in handy for joining something large, like two halves of a bench or table top.
I'd still be inclined to draw a line for the middle.
Tom
and the other with the ends resting like in the photo with the digital box.
Talking about winding sticks, I never seen one with a center line marking.
Suppose many use a good long level for that, so the bubble does that job.
Still I must make a short pair someday, as they would come in handy for joining something large, like two halves of a bench or table top.
I'd still be inclined to draw a line for the middle.
Tom
I must make a pair soon for long term use. The use of aluminium profiles was a temporary use for flattening the table top only.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
No big deal two straight pieces of anything will do. An advantage of just making them when you need them us that they will be straight fresh from the plane, but weeks later may be less so, though you can of course straighten them again.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Here is my bench after the last flattening, which was about 15 months ago ...
I had built it about 6 or 7 years before that time, and this was the first flattening since the build. The European Oak top had lasted pretty well, but there was no longer a substantial area I could rely on for being perfectly flat. As David noted, flat is needed when you use it as a reference surface, and when you use it to shoot edges ...
Winding sticks are not used to “flatten” the top. They are used to check for twist.
Like Jacob, I do not use a scrub plane for tasks like this. I cannot say I use a scrub plane more than a few times a year, and then it is if I am overcome with madness. A jack plane with a 12” camber is usually more than sufficient to take off waste quickly. But note that most of my boards are prepared on machines these days.
As David also mentioned, the first step to flattening is to seek out the high spots, isolate and remove them with a short plane. A smoother or a jack plane will do nicely. I use a straight edge rubbed with chalk to find the high spots.
My preference is to work down the bench. Some may want to work across the bench. You will end up doing both anyway. But it is the high spots you need to focus on. Your aim is to remove as little as possible.
I end with planing down the bench. This is where the winding sticks come in. This is a 36” jointer I built. It is like a battleship - once it gains momentum, nothing stops it!
I end up planing with a toothing blade in a jack plane. This roughens the surface slightly. The last thing one wants is a slick top. I add a single coat of Danish Oil. This is simply to prevent oil and glue from penetrating too much, and aiding cleanup. The surface ends up matt.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I had built it about 6 or 7 years before that time, and this was the first flattening since the build. The European Oak top had lasted pretty well, but there was no longer a substantial area I could rely on for being perfectly flat. As David noted, flat is needed when you use it as a reference surface, and when you use it to shoot edges ...
Winding sticks are not used to “flatten” the top. They are used to check for twist.
Like Jacob, I do not use a scrub plane for tasks like this. I cannot say I use a scrub plane more than a few times a year, and then it is if I am overcome with madness. A jack plane with a 12” camber is usually more than sufficient to take off waste quickly. But note that most of my boards are prepared on machines these days.
As David also mentioned, the first step to flattening is to seek out the high spots, isolate and remove them with a short plane. A smoother or a jack plane will do nicely. I use a straight edge rubbed with chalk to find the high spots.
My preference is to work down the bench. Some may want to work across the bench. You will end up doing both anyway. But it is the high spots you need to focus on. Your aim is to remove as little as possible.
I end with planing down the bench. This is where the winding sticks come in. This is a 36” jointer I built. It is like a battleship - once it gains momentum, nothing stops it!
I end up planing with a toothing blade in a jack plane. This roughens the surface slightly. The last thing one wants is a slick top. I add a single coat of Danish Oil. This is simply to prevent oil and glue from penetrating too much, and aiding cleanup. The surface ends up matt.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Hi DerekHere is my bench after the last flattening, which was about 15 months ago ...
I had built it about 6 or 7 years before that time, and this was the first flattening since the build. The European Oak top had lasted pretty well, but there was no longer a substantial area I could rely on for being perfectly flat. As David noted, flat is needed when you use it as a reference surface, and when you use it to shoot edges ...
Winding sticks are not used to “flatten” the top. They are used to check for twist.
Like Jacob, I do not use a scrub plane for tasks like this. I cannot say I use a scrub plane more than a few times a year, and then it is if I am overcome with madness. A jack plane with a 12” camber is usually more than sufficient to take off waste quickly. But note that most of my boards are prepared on machines these days.
As David also mentioned, the first step to flattening is to seek out the high spots, isolate and remove them with a short plane. A smoother or a jack plane will do nicely. I use a straight edge rubbed with chalk to find the high spots.
My preference is to work down the bench. Some may want to work across the bench. You will end up doing both anyway. But it is the high spots you need to focus on. Your aim is to remove as little as possible.
I end with planing down the bench. This is where the winding sticks come in. This is a 36” jointer I built. It is like a battleship - once it gains momentum, nothing stops it!
I end up planing with a toothing blade in a jack plane. This roughens the surface slightly. The last thing one wants is a slick top. I add a single coat of Danish Oil. This is simply to prevent oil and glue from penetrating too much, and aiding cleanup. The surface ends up matt.
Regards from Perth
Derek
thank you for your reply. Two halves of my bench top were true But there was a twist between them. To take it out I built two rails which needed to be parallel hence use of winding sticks.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
You can use winding sticks to help flatten a bench - they just have to be long enough so that they double as straight edges.
I made my current bench about 35 years ago. I haven't flattened it once since then! I've cleaned it a few times and planed off any protruberances such as you get from knocking nails into it , or over enthusiatic morticing.
If I want a very flat surface for any reason I'll drop on a piece of mdf, or two or three bearers nicely planed up, or various other solutions
It's impossible to have a general purpose bench which also has a perfect surface. If I wanted a perfect surface bench then I'd make one separately for that purpose, but I don't need one.
"Reference surface" is an engineering term and not much use to woodworkers. It's obviously distracted a lot of people!
Derek your bricks look like the labour of Hercules! I'll post up a photo of my "weighted beam" clamp which does the same thing but much easier.
Think "Moxon" vice but horizontal instead. You can either use a bolt at each end, or one bolt and a weight at the other end. It's effectively a "quick release" set up and takes seconds to put things in, turn them etc.
I made my current bench about 35 years ago. I haven't flattened it once since then! I've cleaned it a few times and planed off any protruberances such as you get from knocking nails into it , or over enthusiatic morticing.
If I want a very flat surface for any reason I'll drop on a piece of mdf, or two or three bearers nicely planed up, or various other solutions
It's impossible to have a general purpose bench which also has a perfect surface. If I wanted a perfect surface bench then I'd make one separately for that purpose, but I don't need one.
"Reference surface" is an engineering term and not much use to woodworkers. It's obviously distracted a lot of people!
Derek your bricks look like the labour of Hercules! I'll post up a photo of my "weighted beam" clamp which does the same thing but much easier.
Think "Moxon" vice but horizontal instead. You can either use a bolt at each end, or one bolt and a weight at the other end. It's effectively a "quick release" set up and takes seconds to put things in, turn them etc.
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Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Jacob, you probably surmised that I was shooting two thin edges for joining ...
I would like to see your fixture.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I would like to see your fixture.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
I think Jacob uses a lead stuffed tin'obeans for the job.
But said recently by his own account, he actually owns clamps, so I could be mistaken and do like what Custard has demonstrated.
I'd imagine the principal could be made a bit fancier with the use of a shave horse idea, another reason to have a tool well incorporated into a bench design.
But nothing stopping one from drilling or chopping two holes into the bench top either.
Curious myself
All the best
Tom
But said recently by his own account, he actually owns clamps, so I could be mistaken and do like what Custard has demonstrated.
I'd imagine the principal could be made a bit fancier with the use of a shave horse idea, another reason to have a tool well incorporated into a bench design.
But nothing stopping one from drilling or chopping two holes into the bench top either.
Curious myself
All the best
Tom
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
This is the basic set up - beam, bolt at one end, weight at the other, panel workpiece being held.
Apologies for the squalid condition of my bench! I hadn't noticed until I took a photo. It must have been vandalised when I wasn't looking!
Smaller objects may not need the weight if you put it close to the bolt for extra leverage. I was trying out an old dado plane here on a piece of scrap. It was another recent discovery in my box of old and mysterious tools
On the other hand extra weight could be added for a panel. The old bean tins full of lead!
Or another bolt at the other end to really clamp it down. I was using these two bolts before I found another (adapted) carvers screw in my box - they are really useful and you don’t need a spanner
Planing panel from other side of bench - to release panel to turn it, just lever up the beam. Quick release, no effin about with clamps or Derek's pile of bricks.
Planing bevel on edge of panel - it’s a bottom board for a drawer repair
Planing bevel down to gauge line
Couldn’t resist photo of glorious shavings. The wood is reclaimed matchboard probably 150 years old. I’ve got a lot of it and am trying to use it up! Planing anything is much easier if you have a firm holding to start with
Starting on the cross grain
Different class of shaving
Part 2 to follow
Apologies for the squalid condition of my bench! I hadn't noticed until I took a photo. It must have been vandalised when I wasn't looking!
Smaller objects may not need the weight if you put it close to the bolt for extra leverage. I was trying out an old dado plane here on a piece of scrap. It was another recent discovery in my box of old and mysterious tools
On the other hand extra weight could be added for a panel. The old bean tins full of lead!
Or another bolt at the other end to really clamp it down. I was using these two bolts before I found another (adapted) carvers screw in my box - they are really useful and you don’t need a spanner
Planing panel from other side of bench - to release panel to turn it, just lever up the beam. Quick release, no effin about with clamps or Derek's pile of bricks.
Planing bevel on edge of panel - it’s a bottom board for a drawer repair
Planing bevel down to gauge line
Couldn’t resist photo of glorious shavings. The wood is reclaimed matchboard probably 150 years old. I’ve got a lot of it and am trying to use it up! Planing anything is much easier if you have a firm holding to start with
Starting on the cross grain
Different class of shaving
Part 2 to follow
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Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Part 2
Fitted to Drawer. New combined slip and side repair in one piece.
The original bottom was only 5mm thick pine and had been slotted into side without slips, which is the cheapest and easiest fix but not durable. Cheap joinery.
This beam clamp is incredibly useful as it's very easy to set-up and adjust, or remove - there is a slot so you can just pull the beam away. Also infinitely adaptable e..g. can be set as a fence for routing a dado, or holding down for shooting an edge, with other bits of board as necessary.
It's perfect for doing DTs - you can hold several drawer sides together side by side, or a big cupboard side panel full width, and so on. Or a hold down for carving, lettering etc.
Can be quickly installed in any other position by drilling a hole for the screw,
No clamps involved and just one bolt to hold it all, or two if you need to.
Much more convenient and speedier than the metal hold down alternatives
The main thing about it is that a firm holding improves your planing enormously.
PS and it cost sweet FA - I found the bolts in a box! One ordinary bolt will do - cost next to nothing, but those fast thread carvers bolts are very good.
What is the tech name for that style of thread, as found on bench vices etc?
PPS I found the answer in "Rust" magazine; "square" thread apparently.
https://www.rustmag.com/gear/2018/1/4/threads-and-thread-systems
Fitted to Drawer. New combined slip and side repair in one piece.
The original bottom was only 5mm thick pine and had been slotted into side without slips, which is the cheapest and easiest fix but not durable. Cheap joinery.
This beam clamp is incredibly useful as it's very easy to set-up and adjust, or remove - there is a slot so you can just pull the beam away. Also infinitely adaptable e..g. can be set as a fence for routing a dado, or holding down for shooting an edge, with other bits of board as necessary.
It's perfect for doing DTs - you can hold several drawer sides together side by side, or a big cupboard side panel full width, and so on. Or a hold down for carving, lettering etc.
Can be quickly installed in any other position by drilling a hole for the screw,
No clamps involved and just one bolt to hold it all, or two if you need to.
Much more convenient and speedier than the metal hold down alternatives
The main thing about it is that a firm holding improves your planing enormously.
PS and it cost sweet FA - I found the bolts in a box! One ordinary bolt will do - cost next to nothing, but those fast thread carvers bolts are very good.
What is the tech name for that style of thread, as found on bench vices etc?
PPS I found the answer in "Rust" magazine; "square" thread apparently.
https://www.rustmag.com/gear/2018/1/4/threads-and-thread-systems
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