Rotting garage door frame - help please

[Sportique]

Help please.

The bottom 600mm of the garage door frame (carrying one major hinge for the standard opening wooden doors) is rotting.

I have the following questions:

1. is it feasible to just replace this section (say 750mm)? I do have a suitably sized piece of timber to hand.

2. If so, I have heard of a "scarf" joint - which way should this be cut, relative to the old piece and the support wall?

3. Would it be best to stop the new piece short of the ground to reduce rotting, or does contact with the ground aid in the strength of the structure?

4. What would be the best order to do thing, bearing in mind I shall be working alone?

5. Finally! how is it best to secure the new piece to the old - just long, heavy nails through the taper and a couple of bolts into the wall?

Many thanks

Dave

 

[RogerS]

Dave

Bit difficult to advise with the information to hand. Where and how is the frame currently fixed to the wall ? Any fixings going through the rotten piece? How many left in the 'good' piece? Any chance of pictures?

 

[Mike.C]

Help please.

The bottom 600mm of the garage door frame (carrying one major hinge for the standard opening wooden doors) is rotting.

I have the following questions:

1. is it feasible to just replace this section (say 750mm)? I do have a suitably sized piece of timber to hand.

2. If so, I have heard of a "scarf" joint - which way should this be cut, relative to the old piece and the support wall?

3. Would it be best to stop the new piece short of the ground to reduce rotting, or does contact with the ground aid in the strength of the structure?

4. What would be the best order to do thing, bearing in mind I shall be working alone?

5. Finally! how is it best to secure the new piece to the old - just long, heavy nails through the taper and a couple of bolts into the wall?

Many thanks

Dave

Hi Dave,

As Roger says it's a bit hard without seeing the frame/door, but as a basic idea, and if the frame it fixed to bricks, blocks, or concrete-

I know that you said that you already have a piece of suitable timber, but is it treated? Because if not you are only going to be doing the same job again in a few years time.

(1) As long as you can cut and then remove the rotten piece from the rest of the frame without doing any damage, then yes it is feasible.

(2) I would cut the joint with the scarf in the good timber facing out and the new piece facing in. Once again the cut pieces should be treated. I would use a waterproof wood glue to join the scarf, but when fixing the new piece to the wall itself I would use something like Grip All and about 3 of these "Hammer in Screws" drilled and fixed through the timber into the wall http://www.thesitebox.com/Category/4387 ... crews.aspx

(3) If you want to go all the way to the ground for structural strength, then I would wrap and fix a small piece of Damp Proof Membrane around the bottom. I know that It looks ugly and that other members might be against the idea, but I have always done it and it stops rot completely.

(4) Speaks for itself

(5) Mentioned above

HTH

Cherrs

Mike

 

[Dibs-h]

Hi Dave,

As Roger says it's a bit hard without seeing the frame/door, but as a basic idea, and if the frame it fixed to bricks, blocks, or concrete-

I know that you said that you already have a piece of suitable timber, but is it treated? Because if not you are only going to be doing the same job again in a few years time.

(1) As long as you can cut and then remove the rotten piece from the rest of the frame without doing any damage, then yes it is feasible.

(2) I would cut the joint with the scarf in the good timber facing out and the new piece facing in. Once again the cut pieces should be treated. I would use a waterproof wood glue to join the scarf, but when fixing the new piece to the wall itself I would use something like Grip All and about 3 of these "Hammer in Screws" drilled and fixed through the timber into the wall http://www.thesitebox.com/Category/4387 ... crews.aspx

(3) If you want to go all the way to the ground for structural strength, then I would wrap and fix a small piece of Damp Proof Membrane around the bottom. I know that It looks ugly and that other members might be against the idea, but I have always done it and it stops rot completely.

(4) Speaks for itself

(5) Mentioned above

HTH

Cherrs

Mike

The screws Mike is on about are generally OK - but having used

http://www.rapierstar.com/prod_fix.asp

They're a completely different beast and far stronger - thereby taking a greater load if need be. 3 of them would be enough to secure your 750mm piece of timber.

Bit much buying a box for 3 - I have a box of 6" ones - PM me your address & I'll put a few in the post!

As for a scraf joint - http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q= ... 80&bih=937

pictures speak a thousand words - no idea what the guitars are doing in there tho!

HIH

Dibs

 

[beech1948]

Scarf joint seems to be the way to go. I made mine quite long and bolted through them as well as using an epoxy to hold.

The base of the door jamb could be wrapped in DPC but it looks ugly. An old fashioned approach I have used with success is to leave the jamb about 1/2 inch short of the concrete base and fill it with a piece or pieces of slate. Obviously bigger than the woods section then just use an old hardpoint saw to cut it to the right size.

regards
Alan

 

[Mike.C]

Dib's wrote;

The screws Mike is on about are generally OK - but having used

http://www.rapierstar.com/prod_fix.asp

They're a completely different beast and far stronger - thereby taking a greater load if need be. 3 of them would be enough to secure your 750mm piece of timber.

Bit much buying a box for 3 - I have a box of 6" ones - PM me your address & I'll put a few in the post!

Dib's I have never even heard of the screws you mention so I cannot comment on them. The hammer in ones that I use are excellent for this sort of job, but I have to admit if what I have just read is to be believed then I would say that they are better then the ones in my link.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Dibs-h]

Dib's wrote;

The screws Mike is on about are generally OK - but having used

http://www.rapierstar.com/prod_fix.asp

They're a completely different beast and far stronger - thereby taking a greater load if need be. 3 of them would be enough to secure your 750mm piece of timber.

Bit much buying a box for 3 - I have a box of 6" ones - PM me your address & I'll put a few in the post!

Dib's I have never even heard of the screws you mention so I cannot comment on them. The hammer in ones that I use are excellent for this sort of job, but I have to admit if what I have just read is to be believed then I would say that they are better then the ones in my link.

Cheers

Mike

Mike

I'd never heard of them either, but when making my shop door and frame - I was going to use some of those metal sleeve-bolts type of thing and someone here mentioned these. Having used traditional frame fixings in the past - these are much better.

Cheers.

Dibs

 

[RogerS]

A plastic packer works very well to keep the bottom off the ground.

 

[Sportique]

Many thanks for all the advice - apologies it took so long to get back to you - the dreaded flu bug ...

Roger/Mike - sorry I thought I had given enough info - :roll: The original frame is fixed to a brick pillar/wall, but until I have removed the rotten piece I have no idea what was used for fixing.

Mike - Waterproof glue - hmm I would probably have overlooked that :roll: Yeah, the replacement timber has been treated.

Some great ideas as to how to deal with the bottom of the new piece, I will check to see if I have any DPC/tile/slate/plastic pieces, thanks.

Dibs - the scarf joints in your URL show two types I was going for the simple taper, rather than the squared ends.

Many thanks for your very kind offer Dibs, please let me check out what I may already have, thanks again.

Beech - I may have a piece of tile rather than slate - that's a good idea :idea:

The door frame cross-section measures 100x75.

Final question:

What angle/length should I make the scarf, I was thinking 200mm over the 75mm thickness?

Cheers

Dave

(PS - I presume I can hi-jack my own thread? - Mike do you plan to visit the Scottish Wood Show next month? I hope to go on the Saturday it would be good to meet if possible)

 

[Dibs-h]

What angle/length should I make the scarf, I was thinking 200mm over the 75mm thickness?

Cheers

Dave

(PS - I presume I can hi-jack my own thread? - Mike do you plan to visit the Scottish Wood Show next month? I hope to go on the Saturday it would be good to meet if possible)

Dave

The point of a scarf is to provide greater glue surface than would be the case with a butt joint, but the angle must not be too great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarf_joint

I'd go with 45 degrees. A simple scarf is good enough.

HIH

Dibs

p.s. Glue - I'd use PU. I use LumberJack 5 or 30 min PU by Everbuild and it foams nicely filling any gaps, etc. It comes in cartridges that fit a std caulking gun and last absolutely ages.

 

[Sportique]

Dibs - finally got around to dealing with the door frame. The self-fixing screws worked extremely well, I used a 6mm masonry bit to drill the holes in the brickwork.

However, getting the screws into the brick proved a bit too much for my puny "power" driver, but the power drill on slow speed did the job.

Thanks again for the screws.

Dave