Record Power Updated CX3000 – reliable specs?

[J_Ashley]

Record Power are advertising their updated CX3000 extractor achieves airflow of 2000 m³/h, up from 1200 m³/h with the older model. However, the motor has a power rating of 750W, increased from 560W.

I’m certainly no expert, but having been looking around online at chip extractor type machines, both of these figures appear quite ambitious given their respective motor powers. In general, I’m seeing that 750W/1HP generally achieves around 800-1000 m³/h, and it takes larger 1.5kW/2HP motors to get to 1500-2000 m³/h.

I’m looking for something that achieves airflow round 1000-2000 m³/h, and hence was looking at 1.5kW/2HP equipped machines. Is the Record CX3000 worth considering, or are those figures likely to be a bluff?

 

[Sideways]

In a word, no.
I wouldn't expect a real world performance that good from such a small motor. These machines are pretty low tech with inefficient fabricated steel impellers to provide the durabilityand clearance to pass chips through the fan. 1.5kW is what I'd expect too.

Where might the claimed jump in performance come from ?
They may be using a more efficient as well as bigger motor, but % gains would be limited.
Bag could be bigger / better fabric than the old one but once the dust cake builds up, that wouldn't do very much.
Impeller design could be radically improved to increase airflow / pressure but that would be expensive to design and make, and if plastic moulded would be less durable than the traditional steel "material moving" impeller. (checked their website, it's a bog standard steel impeller - a little deeper than common is all.
I can't help but think marketing have promoted some some theoretical max airflow with no bags or hoses attached
Call me a cynic ...

 

[sunnybob]

almost any manufacturers figures should be taken with a couple kilos of table salt.
Their numbers will always be under the most ideal conditions that can be arranged in a test laboratory.
Youve never seen a set of numbers with (in the real world) printed next to them.

Your "need" seems a bit vague.... 1000 to 2000 is a hell of a spread. What are you running?
Bear in mind its a rare day when two machines are running at the same time in a hobby situation.

i have one of these https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-dust-chip-collector.html and it is perfect for everything I have up to a 12" thicknesser.

 

[J_Ashley]

Thanks both for confirming my suspicions. I guess, in this instance, Record might be claiming even more idealised numbers than competing manufactures

Your "need" seems a bit vague.... 1000 to 2000 is a hell of a spread. What are you running?

.

Apologies - that was meant to say 1500-2000 m³/h. To be honest, it's probably better to say I was intending to look for a 1.5kW machine instead of 0.75kW.

My main reason is that it will predominantly be connected to a drum sander, and I got the impression that this piece of machinery requires greater extraction than most. Also, given the particle size, HVLP will be required .

Other than that, I'll probably connect it to a bandsaw. The two aren't going to be running at the same time, and so I'd even be happy with a single ducting that I connect/disconnect rather than a more complex and permanently fixed setup.

 

[sunnybob]

I cant comment on the record machine as I have never owned one. The sip I have is faultless.
I run 62 mm pipe along the wall and use a bandsaw, router table, belt and disc sander, and mitre saw all permanently connected through blast gates.
Then I have another blast gate take off that uses 6 metres of 62 mm hose to vacuum the floor and benches, and I also connect that hose to a bobbin sander, or a lunchbox thicknesser.
So I'm extracting chips AND dust (despite me being told that that cant happen! :shock: #-o ) and I totally recommend this machine to anyone running similar machinery to mine.

 

[J_Ashley]

Thanks for the advice regarding the SIP - I'll certainly look into it. The price is a bonus too, as is the size - having finite space is certainly one of the draw backs of the larger HVLP extractors.

Just out of interest, where does CamVac fit into all this? Are they meant to compete with vacuums or the HVLP extractors?

 

[sunnybob]

Cant help you. By pure blind luck this was the first one I bought. It performs so well that I havent yet even thought about changing it out.

but I would say I have had quite a lot of "you cant do this and you cant do that" every time I've commented on my system, which according to experts cant possibly do what it does, so dont get too bound up in theory. 8)

 

[Sideways]

Just for curiousity, I did the math. Unless I messed it up (which is entirely possible) 2,000 cubic metres an hour is 163 kilometers an hour (100mph) airflow through a 125mm (5") diameter duct system. That feels about right for the Charnwood 1.5kw machine I hooked up last week.
I wonder if record increased the size of the inlet on the CX3000 from 100mm to 125mm when they uprated the motor ? I don't think these simple machines will get this volume of air down the old 4" pipe.

 

[Sideways]

Also - Camvac is a basically powerful vacuum cleaner. It's just one, two or three vacuum cleaner motors fitted into a tin can. They make great suction pressure but a vacuum cleaner moves so much less air than an HVLP chip collector that even the three motor models don't come anywhere near close to the airflow.
However, their high pressure means that they can overcome the resistance of narrow pipes effectively so they can achieve their airflow pretty reliably.
I've got use of a numatic NVD750 (a similar tin can with two x 1200 watt vacuum cleaner motors in it). It's quite good, but the airflow is specified as 5,000 litres / min. That's 5 cubic metres a minute or 300 cubic metres an hour. So about 1/7th the airflow that the 2,000 cm/h HVLP machines achieve with less power consumption
Different machines for different jobs.
HVLP machines need big ducts. They need to be piped end to end in ducting that's the same diameter as the inlet of the extractor - which for 2000 cm/h, should be 5".

 

[Duncan A]

The RP Toolshop website quotes 1200cbm/hr for the CX3000. I suspect it's a typo on the RP website. In addition, some manufacturers quote P1, power in (950W in this case), and some quote P2, power out (750W for the CX3000). Having said that, RP's liberal use of the words "heavy duty" doesn't help the decision making process
Duncan

 

[Nick.]

Youve never seen a set of numbers with (in the real world) printed next to them.

*Cough - Ahem...

Airflow (Traditional method) 884m3/hour (520 CFM)
Airflow (Realistic method) 748m3/hour (440CFM)

https://www.lagunatools.uk/laguna-products/b-flux-1

8)

 

[sunnybob]

Nick, you seem to have proved me wrong, at the same time as proving me right :shock:

All credit to laguna if they are doing that, but have you worked out the difference between the two?
A whole 20% inflated. One fifth of the "traditional" stated number is a complete lie.

Remember the old hi fi days? when output was measured in RMS? but then some marketing guru decided he could sell more equipment if he used PMP, which very nearly doubled the final number.
buyer beware.

 

[Nick.]

Hi Bob,
"Traditional method" is taken at the inlet.
"Realistic" is taken at a pre-determined point down a hose attached to the machine.
Scroll down to "what is CFM and how is it calculated" on the link below - hopefully it is explained in more detail there.

https://www.lagunatools.uk/cycology

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Sideways]

I'm quite impressed with the Laguna site. Pity they have a typo on almost the very first number you read - 1 horsepower is 746 Watts not 1750 W

but it is just a typo and I like that they're making an effort

 

[Nick.]

I'm quite impressed with the Laguna site. Pity they have a typo on almost the very first number you read - 1 horsepower is 746 Watts not 1750 W

but it is just a typo and I like that they're making an effort

Oops - yes that was a typo - I've just corrected it

Thanks 'Sideways' for the heads up & positive comment about the site - appreciated

More high quality machines from Laguna are due later this year.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[ScaredyCat]

i have one of these https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-dust-chip-collector.html and it is perfect for everything I have up to a 12" thicknesser.

How loud is that btw? I'm not sure what to make of the description though..

SIP 50 litre capacity dust collector is ideal suited for small workshops for woodworking dust and chippings. It has a powerful 1200w (1.6hp) motor. Because these dust collectors generate a high speed of air through the hose, they are suitable for reducing down to a smaller diameter hose when using power tools.

Built to high standards and offers effective and high filtration to 0.5 microns. With a quick action clamp releases the lid of the drum to empty it out. 100mm hose inlet diameter.

Supplied with a 1.8-metre hose and 5 piece adaptor.

**Please note this is only for collecting shavings (not dust).

So is it for dust and shavings or just shavings ?


.

 

[Beau]

I had a Startrite Cyclair with a 750 watt motor. It could move one helava lot of chip mind you think that was on a 6" hose.

 

[sunnybob]

I have no idea what the silly person in sip marketing was smoking at the time, but mine picks up EVERYTHING, from 320 grit sanding dust, to thickenesser scrapings.
Also pencils, odd nuts bolts and screws, nitrile gloves, and once even took a wallpaper scraper handle. It would have taken the whole thing but the blade was wider than the hose.

 

[ScaredyCat]

I have no idea what the silly person in sip marketing was smoking at the time, but mine picks up EVERYTHING, from 320 grit sanding dust, to thickenesser scrapings.
Also pencils, odd nuts bolts and screws, nitrile gloves, and once even took a wallpaper scraper handle. It would have taken the whole thing but the blade was wider than the hose.

Sounds just like what I need

 

[MikeJhn]

I have a Numatic 2400watt Vacuum cleaner, which is what the RP CX3000 and the SIP are, they are not designed to be used with bag collection and you will be exposed to the dust when emptying, not a good idea, the Numatic could not cope with my PT or large chips off the Router Table even though it has twice to power of the others, so take the manufacturers spec and the eulogies with large dosses of salt, if any of the eulogisers on here had ever used a large chip extractor they would be converted, I personally did not believe the difference between this: https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-h ... tor-501264 and the pot type vacuum cleaners that have their place in the workshop on small tools with a bag to collect the find dust.

Mike