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Record Power TS2 Sliding Table Saw

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TheTiddles

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So what is the difference in running a board through say an 18mm dado head cutter on a table saw and running the board through a router table with an 18mm router bit costing less than £30 ? 1/2" Shank
Is that a joke question? I mean do I need to talk about reach, chip removal rate vs feed speed?

You can use a saw and a chisel too, why not do that?
 

Spectric

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Is that a joke question? I mean do I need to talk about reach
Table saw and router table are the same size, reach not a problem. So how much difference in feed speed, I can steadily feed through my router at an acceptable rate, get nice clean cut with decent bottom so what am I missing?
 

TheTiddles

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Table saw and router table are the same size, reach not a problem. So how much difference in feed speed, I can steadily feed through my router at an acceptable rate, get nice clean cut with decent bottom so what am I missing?
Ok…
I want your 18mm housing joint down the middle of a 10’x5’ sheet of 1” ply, 250 times, off you go.

The guy with a dado set on a large panel saw sees this as a lot of work, the guy with a router table?
 

JobandKnock

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To run a groove down a 10 x 5ft sheet of ply on a saw you would need a 3.2metre sliding table saw.... And if you were doing 250 of them you'd really want to use an appropriately sized CNC router (have you ever moved a 10 x 5ft sheet of ply, especially on your own?). But that's more because of the risk of physical injury to the operatives (we used to handle them with an FLT) combined with a respect for the Health & Safety at Work Act. Physically pushing a full sheet over the top of a saw (necessary if your sliding carraige has a stroke shorter than the sheet length) whilst keeping it hard against the rip fence is pretty tiring, too
 

TheTiddles

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To run a groove down a 10 x 5ft sheet of ply on a saw you would need a 3.2metre sliding table saw.... And if you were doing 250 of them you'd really want to use an appropriately sized CNC router (have youe er moved a 10 x 5ft sheet of ply, especially on your own?). But that's more because of the risk of physical injury to the operatives (we used to handle them with an FLT) combined with a respect for the Health & Safety at Work Act
No no, I’m waiting for the router table solution…
 

JobandKnock

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No, you're just arguing for the sake of it. I didn't say router table...

...and I thought I'd asked if you'd ever moved a 10x 5ft sheet of ply on your own. Or maybe I didn't

Of course the lower cost approach to all this might be a Mafell MF26, trenching head and rails. See, i do know a bit about Mafells

So is this the full argument, or just the one day event?
 
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TheTiddles

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correct, you didn’t say router table.

The point is that different tools have different advantages and the advantages to one person, may be different to another, depending on what they want.

If you get that, no further explanation is necessary, if you don’t, no further explanation is possible.
 

Spectric

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I want your 18mm housing joint down the middle of a 10’x5’ sheet of 1” ply, 250 times, off you go.
Well to do it 250 times means that you need a way of doing it at least once, and what you are asking is not for the average joe as most only deal with 8' by 4'.

Good design means you should ensure it can be made with the tools you have at your disposal, it is no good designing something that cannot be easily manufactured because you don't have the right equipment in your workshop.
 

TheTiddles

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Well to do it 250 times means that you need a way of doing it at least once, and what you are asking is not for the average joe as most only deal with 8' by 4'.

Good design means you should ensure it can be made with the tools you have at your disposal, it is no good designing something that cannot be easily manufactured because you don't have the right equipment in your workshop.
soo… maybe the person doing that… might need a machine that does that kind of thing? Like a saw with a dado head? Or are you sticking to your router table philosophy no matter what?
 

Doug71

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Sounds like the factory got it right then 👍

I have heard people say it should be level.
Some people will say it should be level because when you are ripping using the fence if the table is higher it will affect the cut but it's such a small amount it doesn't cause a problem. If it really bothers you cut things say 6mm wider then cut them again to the correct size then on the second cut the sliding table doesn't come in to play.

You could just get away with a level table but you certainly don't want it lower so in my opinion slightly higher is better.

Not sure how it works on the combi saw/spindle moulder machines though 🤔
 

Bristol_Rob

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Some people will say it should be level because when you are ripping using the fence if the table is higher it will affect the cut but it's such a small amount it doesn't cause a problem. If it really bothers you cut things say 6mm wider then cut them again to the correct size then on the second cut the sliding table doesn't come in to play.

You could just get away with a level table but you certainly don't want it lower so in my opinion slightly higher is better.

Not sure how it works on the combi saw/spindle moulder machines though 🤔
Leaving a few mm and then doing a final cut is an excellent idea 💡👌

I'll do some practice and see if it's noticeable.

I'm not sure my joinery is accurate to 0.25mm
🤫
 

Spectric

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soo… maybe the person doing that… might need a machine that does that kind of thing? Like a saw with a dado head?
Unfortunately it seems that you cannot use an 18mm dado cutter quote " David Free (Great British Woodshop) used a stacked dado head cutter on his show the other day. He explained that he checked with all the appropriate agencies in the UK and was told it is perfectly legal to use one as long as the TS is manufactured so as to accept one in the first place. (Arbor length, I assume.) The only restriction is that the maximum kerf width is 15.5 mm. "

Looks like these dados are still a big debate as ever,
 

TheTiddles

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Unfortunately it seems that you cannot use an 18mm dado cutter quote " David Free (Great British Woodshop) used a stacked dado head cutter on his show the other day. He explained that he checked with all the appropriate agencies in the UK and was told it is perfectly legal to use one as long as the TS is manufactured so as to accept one in the first place. (Arbor length, I assume.) The only restriction is that the maximum kerf width is 15.5 mm. "

Looks like these dados are still a big debate as ever,
What if I told you… you could take TWO passes?

Mind blown!
 

Bristol_Rob

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Nice saw.

I think that saw has been around a good few years sold as a Startrite TS1. Startrite was Record Powers professional range but they scrapped the Startrite name and now paint them green and market them as part of the Record Power range.


Now you just need to make yourself a Fritz and Franz jig (y)
I've been watching Fritz & Franz videos - WOW :love:

Thank you so much for this comment - I'm definitely making one of those early (y)
 

JobandKnock

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The point is that different tools have different advantages and the advantages to one person, may be different to another, depending on what they want.
The point is that you are talking about an implausible scenerio as a means of supporting your contrariness. I am left with the very strong impression that you have never used a dado head - because if you had you would have a greater understanding of its' strengths and weaknesses and also of the potential hazards surrounding its' use - instead nada, nothing constructive; you don't seem to have much understanding of handling large, heavy sheet materials, either - do you seriously think it feasible to man handle 250 oversize sheets of 75kg plywood across a saw?

This is borne out by the following comment:
TheTiddles said:
soo… maybe the person doing that… might need a machine that does that kind of thing? Like a saw with a dado head?
Again, 250 sheets x 75kg, or a tad under 19 tonnes. Yes, I'm sure someone will want to man handle that. Not me, though. In the last two days I have measured, cut and fixed just over 1.5 tonnes of fire rated flooring. Granted no board was moved more than about 30 feet, and the boards were a mere 46kg each, but with even that small amount I was cream crackered - good job I had an easy afternoon today. And you think passing 19 tonnes over a saw is doable. What the blazes are you on?

Then you talk about taking two passes to make a wider cut. So, having used your FLT to load the sheet onto your saw, done the required test cuts to ensure that the trench is in the right place, you then push the first sheet across the saw making a 15.5mm trench (you can't use the sliding carraige for the full cut because it is too short and in any case doesn't have the 3.2metre/10ft stroke you need to make the full cut on it). Having made the first cut, you then lug the sheet off the saw and take it back to the front of the saw, where, before you finish the cut to full width you need to reset the rip fence to get that extra bit of width. Of course you then need to load the sheet again and make the 2nd cut, hoping to hell that the fence is now in the right place (because, of course, the fence rule is only graduated in 1mm increments and rip fences don't feature detents or fixed stops unless you have a digital rip fence). Then you have the problem of getting the rip fence back to its' start position. This again can be ever so slightly inaccurate (unless you have a digital rip fence, again) And if you know anything about housings, it should be obvious that as soon as you move the fence that accuracy goes out the window - housings need to be a snug fit, not too tight and never sloppy.

All I can say us don't give up the day job - but if you are in construction or manufacturing, maybe you should consider it

So instead of all this attempted point scoring, do you think you could manage a positive contribution to this discussion so we can get things back on track?
 
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