Record Lathe Banjo Question

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RichardG

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My Record CL3 lathe banjo is adjusted by a lever underneath. To move backwards and forwards a nut slides over the casting in a slight depression. The problem is that despite cleaning and lubricating it gets stuck and jammed with shavings and I have to stop the lathe to adjust which is already becoming a bit of a pain.

295ACC99-2E3A-4873-B835-85B5AD9990AA.jpeg
The newer models used a different design with a single locking lever at the front which looks a vast improvement. I contacted RP and they can supply one from their current model for £70 but the tool post is 1 inch so I would have to buy new tool rests as well or work out some sort of bush.

4E05F884-34C9-4472-9AC9-143BB8F40929.jpeg

My question is, has anyone with my version managed to get it working smoothly? I‘m going to try a cover, perhaps make a T shaped nut or is the new variant the only answer?

thanks
 
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Dalboy

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Before you start buying a new banjo try removint the one you have and clean the bearing surfaces which clamp it to the bars the give it a coat of wax and polish do the same with the bed bars. It will need doing now and again but it will help it slide a little better. I have the CL3 lathe with the green banjo you have pictured it sticks sometimes and doing what I just described helps greatly. I tend to have the odd day cleaning the lathe and doing general maintenance which keeps it in a great working condition.
Applying finishes to a piece of turning sometimes the finish drops onto the bed bars so check and clean the underside not just the top
 

Lazurus

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I have a vb 36 as in my avatar with round solid bed bars, athough the clamping method is different as said above it needs a clean and wax now and again for easy movement - I use a high quality marine wax which i just happened to have which gives great results without a wax build up.
 

RichardG

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It‘s not the sliding on the bars side to side (i.e. left to right) but when you move backwards and forwards (I.e. in and out) when the nut needs to slide in its recess but it just hangs up, any shavings just make it worse. I will have another go at waxing though and try a cover to keep the shavings off.
4D94FE48-7049-49EB-8F28-4A612A1C7B63.jpeg
 

MusicMan

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I'd be happy to turn you up a brass bush, it's a small job. But I would need the mating parts. Doing it by dead reckoning is dodgy!
 

Phil Pascoe

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Run some wet & dry on the the banjo to take any roughness off it then as said wax it with something like machine wax, Briwax, mould release wax, something a bit harder than a normal furniture wax. Clean the bars, turn them a fraction so they don't wear in the same place and do the same. I don't think the newer arrangement is 100% - the machines are pretty "agricultural".
 

RichardG

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I'd be happy to turn you up a brass bush, it's a small job. But I would need the mating parts. Doing it by dead reckoning is dodgy!
Many thanks, if I do go down the new banjo route then I’ll send a PM, but I will try and get the current version working if I can.

Run some wet & dry on the the banjo to take any roughness off it then as said wax it with something like machine wax, Briwax, mould release wax, something a bit harder than a normal furniture wax. Clean the bars, turn them a fraction so they don't wear in the same place and do the same. I don't think the newer arrangement is 100% - the machines are pretty "agricultural".

Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll have a clean up and polish today and see how it goes.
 

minilathe22

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Is the hexagonal nut bearing directly on the groove in the toolrest holder? It looks like it could benefit from a thick oblong washer under it, which would slide better as it would not get angled and bind up. If that makes sense?
 

loftyhermes

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What I did with the banjo on my Record DML24 (which has the same style banjo) was to find a coach bolt that the square fitted the slot, filed it all smooth, dropped it in, also added a piece of ply that just fitted between the bars under the banjo to help keep the bolt upright and welded a piece of bar to the nut underneath.dml24 banjo mod.jpg
 

Deejay

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Morning Richard

Also, you could try PTFE as a less sticky aerosol lubricant.

Cheers

Dave
 

Richard_C

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I wouldn't rush to buy a new one. I have a DML305, cast bed but the 'new' banjo design with 3/4 inch toolpost. It is OK but far from perfect, slides fine most of the time but sticks occasionally and needs a good clean, plus if the 'over centre' clamping isn't set just right it can vibrate loose as you work.
 

RichardG

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Is the hexagonal nut bearing directly on the groove in the toolrest holder? It looks like it could benefit from a thick oblong washer under it, which would slide better as it would not get angled and bind up. If that makes sense?

👏

You hit the nail on the head, well you know what I mean.

I cleaned up the groove so it was smooth, waxed everything and the nut slipped up and down easily but once assembled it jammed again. Watching closely exactly what you described happens, as soon as you try and slide, the nut goes at an angle and binds up.

It turns out that Record new about this problem and fixed it but as I haven’t got the original manual, only a more recent one with the new style banjo, I didn’t see the missing part. By chance I removed the tail stock today as it was getting in the way and guess what I found underneath.
8FDD9FD3-6B10-44BE-B943-193AAD2B8186.jpeg B6759B9E-EDA2-4714-A81A-44656CDA68FC.jpeg

A spring steel insert that keeps the bolt upright between the rails. I moved this over to the banjo and wow, problem solved, completely smooth, no jamming. Whether there should be one under the tail stock too, who knows?

Thanks everyone for their ideas and feedback, one more issue solved.

The only thing left to solve is the numpty at the end of the gouge who seems unable to keep the right cutting angle or sharpen them successfully, practice practice practice .
 

RichardG

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What I did with the banjo on my Record DML24 (which has the same style banjo) was to find a coach bolt that the square fitted the slot, filed it all smooth, dropped it in, also added a piece of ply that just fitted between the bars under the banjo to help keep the bolt upright and welded a piece of bar to the nut underneath.

Your bit of plywood between the rails is doing the same thing as the spring washer, I‘ll make the same for my tail stock if that starts jamming. Thanks.
 

bobajobob

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A bit late to the party but here are a few mods I did to my CL3. The banjo uses a flat sided washer and lignum vitae insert along the lines that have already been suggested. I bought the updated camlock banjo (green) but found it inferior to this design. (Quality was appalling!).


Also shown are a few other mods to the CL3 that makes it much more efficient.
An oil catcher for the front bearing.
Spindle wheel and locking screw.
Tail-stock handle.

I've had this lathe many years and feel no inclination to upgrade, so I hope yours serves you well too.
ps. Yes you must clean the bars and banjo regularly.
 

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RichardG

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A bit late to the party but here are a few mods I did to my CL3. The banjo uses a flat sided washer and lignum vitae insert along the lines that have already been suggested. I bought the updated camlock banjo (green) but found it inferior to this design. (Quality was appalling!).

Also shown are a few other mods to the CL3 that makes it much more efficient.
An oil catcher for the front bearing.
Spindle wheel and locking screw.
Tail-stock handle.

I've had this lathe many years and feel no inclination to upgrade, so I hope yours serves you well too.
ps. Yes you must clean the bars and banjo regularly.
👏👏

Excellent upgrades, you’ve addressed the few points that I’m already wishing the lathe had! I’ve also found oil spraying up the back wall! Do you have any more details on how you made them as I would love to try and copy?

I presume the spindle wheel screws into the end of the shaft where normally there’s a washer and hex bolt and then the spindle lock goes into that?
 

Richard_C

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I have a piece of wood - well, yes I have lots - but this is a piece of 12mm mdf about 200 x 300, an offcut, screwed to a piece of c. 2x1 across the middle. That fits snugly into the lathe bed. I put it under the chuck/spindle if I am using the lathe with a polishing wheel or sanding disk , quick and easy and keeps the nasty stuff off the bits that matter and reduces the need for frequent cleaning. I rarely use the full length of the bed so at other times it sits behind the tailstock and is a useful little table for the abrasives and wax in use at the time.

I have the later Record banjo, on a cast iron bed lathe, and to be honest its OK but 'C minus' for quality and finish - something you notice when you dismantle it for a proper clean up.
 

bobajobob

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The mods were all done a long time ago but from memory............

The oil catcher was turned from acetal but could even be made from wood. Originally a press fit, small retaining grub screws were added later . There is a machined shoulder on the head casting that provides the seating. Back chamfer to retain the released oil. The performance of the bearing makes the effort worthwhile.

The tail-stock handle was turned from stainless steel on my little model maker's lathe and sheathed with wood. This could easily be simplified using tubing. A partially threaded allen bolt provides the axle. The wheel casting must be drilled (and tapped) carefully to maintain squareness.

The main spindle hand-wheel was turned from aluminium and drilled to accomodate an allen bolt (M6 I think). This could be made from decent hardwood I guess but the locking screw bears onto the circumference. It can be removed and replaced with a fine pitch index disk. The locking screw is invaluable if you want perform hand work on your work piece but is quite a tricky task. Drilling and counterboring the head casting requires a little nerve.

One last point. Chuck away the nasty spindle spanner. I replace it with a forged gas bottle spanner from amazon.
Any more info? Just ask.
So many of these fine lathes have been replaced with higher spec but inferior quality imported models. I find the "rawness" of the machine a stimulus to improvisation and creativity.
 

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Jonzjob

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I have a 20 odd year old CL1 and when the banjo bets a bit stiff I give it a good wipe on the under side and then wipe it with a cycle chain dry lube. Same goes for the tail stock and the bed bars. After that the only thing I have to remember is to put a little extra weight into the lock handles to stop them moving.

When the bed bars get a bit mucky from flying friction polish or whatever they get a whipe down with some acetone followed by the dry lube.

That handle on the tail stock handle looks like a good idea, but the dry lube also goes on the shaft and threads on there too. The handle just spins with a slight pressure on the spindle head.
 

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