Mike, beginning to wonder that! But a few (very few) posts have brought new stuff to light and maybe one or two have learnt something! At least it has been active!
Ramped shooting boards - do they really work better?
- Thread starter MusicMan
- Start date
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
I'm waiting for an actual user of a ramped board to describe the advantages experienced after a good few hours of actual use. Nobody has so far!MusicMan":29n1hzkc said:
condeesteso
Established Member
Jacob":14bpds9e said:
Indeed. Spreads edge-wear a bit and even that depends on sections planed etc. Apart from that a bit of woodie romance.
Jacob, Derek Cohen has done just that. The link to his site was given in the second post of this thread, by Marcros.
No doubt he could add to this with subsequent experience, but he has indeed posted in this thread confirming this experience.
Keith
No doubt he could add to this with subsequent experience, but he has indeed posted in this thread confirming this experience.
Keith
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
had a look. Some strange out of this world gadgetry there! Surely he has the ramp going the wrong way - the plane is going to tend to lift the workpiece? It's not clear what experience he is confirming at all, except he manages to get the job done I presume!MusicMan":1h8k9rby said:
I agree on the direction of the ramp. It would seem better to me to have the ramp on the runway, sloping down. Derek?
The point he emphasises is that the ramp (or a skew plane) introduces the blade edge to the wood progressively, rather than the sudden shock of a perpendicular edge hitting a square board. This does indeed happen and can mess up the leading edge of the wood. If a 5 degree ramp is enough to eliminate that shock, it is useful.
The point he emphasises is that the ramp (or a skew plane) introduces the blade edge to the wood progressively, rather than the sudden shock of a perpendicular edge hitting a square board. This does indeed happen and can mess up the leading edge of the wood. If a 5 degree ramp is enough to eliminate that shock, it is useful.
Condeesto is at one of his fine benches skew planing a long board at 22.5 degrees the board is parallel to the front of the bench and he stands in front of the bench pushing the plane along the board's grain parallel to the front of the bench. He is skew planing and this produces a skew cut.
Condeesto is getting long in the tooth his hips are giving him gyp he needs to finish this part tonight he has deadlines.
Leaving the plane on the board mid pass he moves to the end of his bench, he turns the board with the plane still in position so the plane body is parallel to the front of the bench. He clamps a guide to his bench to maintain the boards angle so his plane remains aligned with the front of the bench. With an iron grip he holds the plane in position while pulling the board along the guide, he is no longer using a conventional method of skew planing yet the cutting edge intersects
the grain in the same correlation as before.
Is it skew planing does it produce a skew cut does it produce a simulated skew? If not please explain :?
Condeesto is getting long in the tooth his hips are giving him gyp he needs to finish this part tonight he has deadlines.
Leaving the plane on the board mid pass he moves to the end of his bench, he turns the board with the plane still in position so the plane body is parallel to the front of the bench. He clamps a guide to his bench to maintain the boards angle so his plane remains aligned with the front of the bench. With an iron grip he holds the plane in position while pulling the board along the guide, he is no longer using a conventional method of skew planing yet the cutting edge intersects
the grain in the same correlation as before.
Is it skew planing does it produce a skew cut does it produce a simulated skew? If not please explain :?
condeesteso
Established Member
Good grief Tom! Is that complicated enough? I repeat:
My final: a skew cut occurs ONLY if the angle between cutting edge and direction of travel is NOT 90 degrees.
That is it, that is all. Simulated skew doesn't exist.
edit add-on: Derek is right (about 2 pages ago). Ramp board, NO skew, spreads edge wear; eases start of cut - which can help quite a bit on thicker boards. Derek effectively ended the discussion.
Peace and goodwill to all, including those who don't shoot boards at all
My final: a skew cut occurs ONLY if the angle between cutting edge and direction of travel is NOT 90 degrees.
That is it, that is all. Simulated skew doesn't exist.
edit add-on: Derek is right (about 2 pages ago). Ramp board, NO skew, spreads edge wear; eases start of cut - which can help quite a bit on thicker boards. Derek effectively ended the discussion.
Peace and goodwill to all, including those who don't shoot boards at all
Agreed, Douglas. Saying the same thing five different ways should suffice!
Best to all
Keith
Best to all
Keith
bugbear
Established Member
Tom K":1d25h8ir said:
You're almost implicitly defining your terms here, but not quite.
Can you (pretty please) be explicit about which items your angle of 22.5 degrees is measured between?
I could guess, but them we'd be using my assumptions/prejudices, not yours.
Oh, and could you define what you mean by "simulated skew"?
BugBear
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
So a 5 degree change of direction will reduce the planing "shock" effect? For all planing or just on a ramp? Very mysterious.MusicMan":3pq1s6oy said:
Are there other ways of creeping up on wood so as not to surprise it? :lol: :lol:
bugbear":hlt3c0bs said:
Good morning, assuming we are working left to right angle measured between left hand side flank of the planes body and the lower edge of our board or a line drawn through the board parallel to the edge and lets use a narrow board as per previous diagrams so that the blade is wider than the board.
As to definitions I will now say I believe the ramped board can produce a skew cut which simulates skew planing. By simulate I mean differing means to the same end result using the same components.
For those throwing their arms in the air and snorting its just an itch that needs scratching now and then :lol:
condeesteso
Established Member
Hi Tom, I don't think we will get any further here unless you first accept that a skew cut has nothing at all to do with stock / workpiece. It is fundamental that you accept this so if not please explain why. My previous mention of me standing there planing a board did not help - sorry and I retract, imagine I never said any of anything to do with the actual wood.
I would personally like to bury the expression 'simulated skew' - I don't know where it came from but it should go back there
I think we are all in place with what a skew cut is - I tried to capture it in as few plain words as I could and I am happy with my definition, but it was also said that there has to be vector motion (words to that effect), i.e. 2 components to edge movement, one forward and one sideways.
A ramped board cannot produce a skewed cut. Most certainly not.
I would personally like to bury the expression 'simulated skew' - I don't know where it came from but it should go back there
I think we are all in place with what a skew cut is - I tried to capture it in as few plain words as I could and I am happy with my definition, but it was also said that there has to be vector motion (words to that effect), i.e. 2 components to edge movement, one forward and one sideways.
A ramped board cannot produce a skewed cut. Most certainly not.
bugbear
Established Member
1) If, on a square board (say a coupla' feet on each side), we move the plane parallel in its own length, to the grain,
that's "normal planing", and definitely not skewed.
2) If we now turn the board through 45 degrees, we will now be planing corner-to-corner
but still not making a skewed cut; the planing action has not changed, merely
the angle of the workpiece relative to the planing stroke.
3) We could make a change equivalent to (2) by leaving the board where it is,
but rotating the plane, AND planing stroke through 45 degrees. The plane
is now (as in (2)) moving in its own length, corner to corner on the board,
and it's still not a skewed cut.
4) But a ramped shooting board is exactly case (3), where the ramp rotates the planing
stroke relative to the workpiece. Therefore it's (still) not a skewed cut.
(I've made the skew angle a nice big 45 to make everything more obvious)
BugBear
that's "normal planing", and definitely not skewed.
2) If we now turn the board through 45 degrees, we will now be planing corner-to-corner
but still not making a skewed cut; the planing action has not changed, merely
the angle of the workpiece relative to the planing stroke.
3) We could make a change equivalent to (2) by leaving the board where it is,
but rotating the plane, AND planing stroke through 45 degrees. The plane
is now (as in (2)) moving in its own length, corner to corner on the board,
and it's still not a skewed cut.
4) But a ramped shooting board is exactly case (3), where the ramp rotates the planing
stroke relative to the workpiece. Therefore it's (still) not a skewed cut.
(I've made the skew angle a nice big 45 to make everything more obvious)
BugBear
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condeesteso
Established Member
Obtuse? at least there would be an angle involved which is NOT 90 DEGREES. That would be progress.
planing...cutting...bored now. I'm off.
planing...cutting...bored now. I'm off.
bugbear
Established Member
condeesteso":29a1qhpk said:
Agreed. Any further discussion would likely just be (more
) repetition.BugBear
condeesteso":4vbqiq6e said:
There was mate. I just described the basis of a skew planning machine it was probably patented in the 19th century all it needed was a power feed to replace your left hand drawing the timber past the blade and a carrier to replace your right hand positioning the blade. I was going to call the Douglas Dragonfly but not if you won't play.........Laters dude (hammer)
