Quantcast
  • We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Problem Preparing Stock

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

Zarrjazz

Member
Joined
23 Sep 2004
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Hello

I wonder if you can help me. I am having a little problem getting my stock nice and square. I can get two faces square to each other on my joiner but when I plane the stock to the correct thickness that face ends up not being square to the other two, I hope that makes sense. Any tips and words of wisdom would be gratefully appreciated. I am using a SIP 6" bench jointer and a Delta 22-565 thicknesser.

Cheers.

Alex
 

Aragorn

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2004
Messages
1,331
Reaction score
0
Location
East Sussex
Hi Alex
Welcome to the forum.
Sounds like the knives in you thicknesser must be skew-whiff.
If you're getting a square edge off the jointer, then the thicknesser should be duplicating that giving square all round. Check the setup of the thicknesser blades and get back to us...

Could also be sawdust/chippings/dirt etc in the thicknesser affecting the cut. Give it all a good clean out.
 

woodshavings

Established Member
Joined
20 Mar 2003
Messages
714
Reaction score
0
Location
Alton, Hampshire
A quick way to check if the blades are skewed is place a narrow piece of stock on one side of the table, manually turn the cutter and note how far it moves. Do this for each blade position, (2 or 3 dependant upon the model.) The move distance should be the same.
Then repeat with the stock on the other side of the table and note the movement. They should be identical, if not the blade is skewed - it will also show if one blade is badly set.
HTH John
 

ProShop

Established Member
Joined
19 Apr 2004
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
0
Location
North Lincolnshire
Alex, good advice on the above comments.
You could also check the measurment between the planer blades and the planer bed at each side.
 

Zarrjazz

Member
Joined
23 Sep 2004
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Hello

Thanks for all the info and the warm welcome. I have cleaned out all the sawdust, swapped the blades over (they are the reversible type), made sure all the tables are level and measured the cutterhead block and it appears to level. Unfortunately it is still not planning parallel, when I place an engineers square on the square edge the is a small gap along face that has just been through the thicknesser which gradually gets bigger as it goes along the square (it goes from no gap to a very small gap). Assuming that it is not my thicknesser that is at fault is there anything else that could be causing this problem?

Cheers

Alex
 

Aragorn

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2004
Messages
1,331
Reaction score
0
Location
East Sussex
I think I'm not far off in saying that the only options are: (in probable order!)
1) Edges of the surface planer are not exactly square to start with;
2) Thicknesser blade setup is not precise;
3) Set square is not precisely 90º;
4) Grit or chippings are fouling the thicknesser bed/underside of timber;
5) Fault with machine - thicknesser bed is out-of-parallel to headstock.

Do you have an accurate caliper? If so, check the thickness at opposite sides of the timber. Is it the same, or within a few hundreths of a mm?
If not, then it must be 2, 4 or 5 above. If it is, then it must be 1 or 3.

_______________
Cheers!
Aragorn

Don't you just love that use of the word "fouling" :?:
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
Yup: it's not what you want to hear, but if you've carefully looked at the blades, it may be time for a long hard look at the 'tables'..
 

Zarrjazz

Member
Joined
23 Sep 2004
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
I was beginning to think that it might be my square that might be wonky. Can you recommend a decent one that would be worth a try?.

Cheers

Alex
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
The square's relatively easy to check: put it against some stock, run a pencil (or better yet, but carefully, a marking knife) along the edge. Flip the base of the square over so that it's on the 'opposite' side, and see if the edge still lines up with the marked line. Geometry means that if right angled, it must.
 

Zarrjazz

Member
Joined
23 Sep 2004
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Well I have tested my square and yes you've guessed it my square is not square. I tested both the inside and outside edges using the above method (handy thing that geometry) and both are out, so I will get a new square (a square one this time) and test my stock again. Any recommendations on a suitable square will be appreciated.

Cheers

Alex
 

devonwoody

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2004
Messages
13,461
Reaction score
4
Location
Paignton Devon
I would make your own square (a few pence)
Get hold of a piece of hardboard around 18"" long 6" wide run a cut through with your table saw at 140mm and check that both ends of the hardboard with a caliper are 140 mm and if your hardboard had a square corner you have a cheap and cheerful square ( and plenty more to come)
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
OK Alex, glad that helped: just be aware that most carpenters' squares are only warranted square on the 'inside' edge. I believe that engineers squares are different, and warranted square on both sides...

Be aware that if it's 'reasonably' out of true, as opposed to massively, you can try correcting it with a centre punch and hammer:

If it is 'tighter' than 90 degrees, put the centre punch on the steel at the inside corner and whack it... this will 'bulge' metal slightly, and open the square up fractionally.

Conversely, if it's 'wider', do the same thing but at the outside of the corner, and the bulge will push the angle in...

Hope this makes sense: if the square 'isn't', then you've got nothing to lose by trying this - and it'll relieve some frustration even if it doesn't work... :wink:
 

ProShop

Established Member
Joined
19 Apr 2004
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
0
Location
North Lincolnshire
Or you could just simply buy an engineers square, both inside and outside edges are square to within very small certified tolerances.

Much more accurate than most joiners squares.

Axminster have them in different sizes in their latest catalogue. But available from most good tool shops.
I use one all the time, I stopped using joiners squares some years ago when an engineer friend of mine put me wise.
 

Alf

Established Member
Joined
22 Oct 2003
Messages
12,079
Reaction score
0
Location
Up the proverbial creek
I've pretty much switched exclusively to engineer's squares now too. As usual I went overboard and now have a wide range of sizes from which to choose... :oops: Oddly enough the dinky 2" one gets used considerably more than you'd expect. Plus it's very cute. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

Philly

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2003
Messages
6,874
Reaction score
0
Location
Dorset, England.
Hi All,
I've found that "Square" is just a tool name, not necessarily a description....... :evil:
Most brass and rosewood items are trash-nice to look at but embarressingly inaccurate. An engineers square is not expensive ( I paid about £6 for a 4 inch one) but is truly square. You don't need to go crazy and by the certified ones-a simple engineers square of workshop grade will be far more accurate than the pretty brass ones.
(Incidently, I am not talking about expensive Bridge City style Uber-squares, just the cheap and nasty Brass/rosewood squares most tool stores sell. You don't need an adjustable square-just one that"is" :lol: )
Machine Mart are a good source of resonably priced squares- if not Axminster or Tilgear can sort you out.
Hope this is of help,
Philly :D
(Who has some very pretty squares for sale is you are interested-unfortunately they are just pretty-not square.............. :roll: )
 

Shady

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2004
Messages
838
Reaction score
0
I must admit, I tend to use them (engineer's) more than 'trad' squares. Another source of potential error in some trad woodworkers' is the little brass nails that are used to secure the brass wear strip to the wood of the stock. With any wood movement, they can start to be 'ever so slightly' proud of the wear strip... Not enough to note by eye, but enough to throw all your marking out (and guess who learned that the hard way... :cry: ) I tap them in with a centrepunch if it happens, and check before each use.
 

bg

zzzz
Joined
7 Feb 2004
Messages
65
Reaction score
0
Location
Norfolk
As a relative newbie to WW, stock cut out of square was driving me nuts until I too realised my square was out. When I got a good set of squares (and other angles), I then sacrificed the best part of an 8 x 4 ply sheet checking out the machinery, and the table saw in particular was in need of adjustment. Some of the cheaper tools simply cant be adjusted to satisfaction. My small perform planner has a fence that is slightly bowed, and, although it is probably my technique, I have not managed to reliably plane two planks so they have a perfect join all along. I get better results jointing planks on the router table. So my two pennies worth is say how much better everything went when I got some accurate measuring tools, and also spent some time and wood setting up and getting to know the machinery. And, although I haven’t yet got around to it, perusing the advise on this web site, it seems some time truing up the hand tools such as planes and chisels are also required before they are used even when purchase new. I’m in the process of deciding what sharpening system I should use, and again (if you need it) you will find plenty of advise on sharpening systems in the archives on this site.
 

Philly

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2003
Messages
6,874
Reaction score
0
Location
Dorset, England.
BG,
As to your planer problem try this-alternate face in-face out as you plane edge joints. This takes any error in your fence out of the equation. I have a big cast iron Jet jointer-the fence is straight as a die but I still have to use the alternating edge trick to ensure a perfect joint.
Try it as see!
regards
Philly :D
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Not forgetting that you can sometimes cut in ways to take out-of-true tools into account so that when you join the pieces there are no gaps or warps. Joining long boards on the table saw is a classic - I never worry about the edge being exactly square to the face because as long as I remember to cut the right side up and right end in first the pieces always join perfectly. Just don't touch the angle adjusting wheel between boards! Geometry...
 

Latest posts

Top