problem jointing legs to side rails on stool

[markturner]

Hi guys, I am making a stool in Indian Rosewood for SWMBO, to go with a lovely Gordon Russel dressing table we recently purchased. Initially, all was going very well, however, I did not give due consideration to how the thing was going to fit together and am now faced with a tricky problem of jointing the legs to the side rails. The problem is that the legs are tapered and the side of the rails angled, so I have no straight faces to work the domino jointer from, if I use that and I don't want any fixings etc showing. The legs are a kind of square ellipse, two faces at different angles....

Here is a picture of the dressing table, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1960s-English ... 0558133282 I am making the stool as an exact scaled down version, minus the mirror of course. If you look carefully, you will see the design and the problems it poses. Perhaps I should also ask, if you copying this from scratch, how would design the joints etc ?

does anyone have any ideas? I am pondering on making some kind of jig to hold the legs at the correct angle for using the domino but that leads to the issue of transferring the correct angle in reverse to the other piece - if it's out just a few mm I am knackered. Or I could try some kind of joint, a lap joint or partial tenon, but not sure what would look best etc, or be practical to do..Or I could dowel through using a contrasting wood or even the same wood. What do you reckon?

Cheers, Mark

 

[Paul Chapman]

Can you post a picture of the pieces you are wanting to join?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[markturner]

done

 

[knappers]

The way I see it, you do have coplanar faces you could work from with a domino.

Si.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Can't really see what the problem is. If you are using a Domino, simply mark the position of the joints with a pencil and line up the machine with the marks. You might have to clamp on a couple of pieces of scrap to give the Domino base more support when plunging into the end of the rails but that shouldn't be a problem. If you are still concerned, try it out on some scrap stuff first.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

I can see what your problem is...you haven't got square matching faces to work the Domino off, n'est pas? If so, the way I'd go about it is make up some very carefully machined tapered slips that can be d/s taped into position on the mating surfaces to make each square, then domino through the slips to make a pair of corresponding 'oles in each leg and rail. The remove the slips from each piece and if my train of thought is correct (which is probably isn't) each joint ought to go together.
Hindsight is a wondrous thing and what you should have done is cut the jointing whilst everything was still square...but you knew that anyway :wink: - Rob

 

[markturner]

Hi Guys, its not quite as easy as that ( all faces are angled and raked..), but that's the theory of what I was thinking. Problem one is that the outside face of the legs and side rail is gently curved as well, so tricky to register the domino nice and flat. The angled slips is probably the way to go. I will ponder on the best way.....Paul, the first slot on the side rail would be fine, it's making sure the second one on the leg is the exact mirror image of the first, but in reverse, that is the problem....

As an aside, if we ruled out the domino approach, what would you recommend by way of a joint in this scenario?

And yes, I should have thought this out a bit more, (homer) #-o

Cheers, Mark

 

[Paul Chapman]

you haven't got square matching faces to work the Domino off,

I think he has, Rob. The problem is the same one I had when I made my table where the legs and rail were at angles

The mating surfaces are all flat - it's just that they are not square in relation to the sides. The base of the Domino will reference off the flat mating faces, so it doesn't matter that the sides are not square. As I see it, he just needs to mark the pieces carefully so that he can position the base of the Domino accurately.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mark, our last two posts crossed. As I said, when I made my table I had a similar problem. I used loose tenons to join the legs to the rails. I routed the legs first, then made up a rough jig so that I could rout the ends of the rails - just had to make the jig so that the ends of the rails were flush with the base of the router

As I see it, you have the same problem as I had. Provided you can support the base of the Domino sufficiently, you just have to make sure it references off the joining surfaces and that you mark them out accurately.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

If the end product has odd shapes/angles/mouldings/rebates etc it's often easier to do the mortice and tenons first whilst all is still square, and the shaping afterwards.

 

[woodbloke]

I think he has, Rob. The problem is the same one I had when I made my table where the legs and rail were at angles

The mating surfaces are all flat - it's just that they are not square in relation to the sides. The base of the Domino will reference off the flat mating faces, so it doesn't matter that the sides are not square. As I see it, he just needs to mark the pieces carefully so that he can position the base of the Domino accurately.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

It's a similar problem to your one Paul, but taken a step further. If you were to look at the plan view of your leg/rail assembly (i.e. from on top) the rail and leg is still square...hence you could reference a Domino off them if needed (but it would still be awkward because of the angle that the legs were set at) The issue here (as I see it anyway) is that Mark's timber is tapered or trapezoidal when viewed from above as well as the legs being tapered anyway if looked at in the front elevation...which makes it a bit of a 'mare to joint - Rob

 

[markturner]

You are correct Rob, it was a bit of a mare, however, I shimmed out the piece until it has a sacrificial right angled face as suggested, and used the domino setting that machines the slot wider than the actual domino, to allow for the fact that the leg tapered. It seems to have worked OK:

I will post up some better pictures in the projects section, as I actually remembered to take some WIP shots using a decent camera for this project...

Thanks everyone for the advice, although, there is still a way to go to finish the thing and I have the top to fit yet, which is going to be a head scratcher as well..

Cheers, Mark