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planing quartersawn wood

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thetyreman

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I am wondering if anyone has a preference for planing quartersawn wood?

I am planing some quartersawn beech and am surprised at how often I have to sharpen up, every 5 minutes instead of every 20, it works but it's hard on the blade. This isn't the first time I've noticed it when planing quartersawn wood.

from what I know it is basically end grain in parts, so would a lower angle be beneficial? :D

thoughts.
 

Pete Maddex

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A harder blade will help but will take longer to sharpen, try plaining teak then you will know how to sharpen!

Treat it as a rest stop between plaining!

Pete
 

Just4Fun

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Pete Maddex":2k3j4ahn said:
Treat it as a rest stop between plaining!
I thought with teak the planing was a rest stop between sharpening
 

Argus

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If you have some quarter-sawn Beech then there will be the signs of medullary rays, as with Oak the rays can challenge the cutting edge. In fact no two boards act the same, even from the same tree. You may have some very hard wood there.

I suppose that sharpening is a necessary evil if you're doing it by hand, especially with hard wood. On the subject of plane angles, I presume that you are thinking of substituting a 'normal' common pitch plane at 45 deg for something with a lower cutting angle?

I don't think a low angle plane will improve things much. What you get with a lower bed-angle is the ability to hone the bevel to a higher cut level. This means that, say - a bed angle of 20 degrees with a 25 degree bevel, you cut at 45 degrees. If you adjust that bevel to 40 degrees, you get the equivalent of a half-pitch cut.

What I'm trying to say is that if I have 'awkward' grain, I go for a higher angle. I reach for a plane at 60 degrees, half-pitch, which is about as high as you can practically cut with a blade.

If you are using a No: 4 / No: 5 type with a 45 deg angle, and you have a spare blade that you don't object to experimenting with, try applying a short 15 degree back bevel this will give you the higher cut. (Keep it short to avoid interfering with the back-iron).

Try it. If it doesn't work, rub out the back bevel, then ....... Plan C? Scraper?

Good luck.
 

MikeG.

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Well, you lot have got me scratching my head. I've never noticed any difference at all planing quarter sawn boards as compared to through-and-through.
 

Argus

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MikeG.":3j5pqy9y said:
Well, you lot have got me scratching my head. I've never noticed any difference at all planing quarter sawn boards as compared to through-and-through.
I agree. Mike. On a compliant piece of quartered wood, that's usually the case.

However, I got the impression that the OP had encountered a combination of hard, wavy grain and possibly pronounced medullary rays which may deflect all but the most keen of edges.
It was, apparently taxing his cutting edges.

In the end, if all else fails..... scrapers.
 

thetyreman

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Argus":1orhcqht said:
MikeG.":1orhcqht said:
Well, you lot have got me scratching my head. I've never noticed any difference at all planing quarter sawn boards as compared to through-and-through.
I agree. Mike. On a compliant piece of quartered wood, that's usually the case.

However, I got the impression that the OP had encountered a combination of hard, wavy grain and possibly pronounced medullary rays which may deflect all but the most keen of edges.
It was, apparently taxing his cutting edges.

In the end, if all else fails..... scrapers.
spot on, there are a lot of medullary rays, it's definitely a very hard piece of wood. I am going to make a 55 degree smoother soon so it'll be interesting to see if that improves the surface a bit, I have to plane it down from over 1 inch thick to 7/8" which should be fun :D

here are some pictures of the wood in question
 

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Argus

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thetyreman":2hpp901k said:
I counted 132 rings in the space of 6 1/2" :eek:
Yes, I noticed some very slow growth about midway through with some excellent figuring; difficult working is the price you pay for that sort of quality..

Taking one 1/8th off that is going to be a mighty work-out for you and the plane. When I mentioned a 60 degree Half-pitch planes they are usually set to take off a tissue - they are good for a final finish on wavy, end on surfaces.... similar to a scraper without lifting contrary fibres under the edge.

If you are content on continuing with handwork, may I suggest a scrub-planes?

Alternatively, rip the glue-joint, do the business to the required depth on a thicknesser, then re-glue and finish using a high angled cutter.

A 55 degree plane should be OK.... more than 65 and you have a scraping/digging action. The point that I may not have emphasised earlier is that this high angle demands the thinnest shaving from the keenest edge you can set to deal with the wayward fibres on the surface.

Try to propel the plane at a slight angle to the grain instead of straight-on in order to give a slicing effect.
Medullary rays, by their nature, are nearly horizontal to the surface and tend to glaze over with the passage of the plane body.... a skating effect which may explain the poor progress and rapid blunting that you mentioned earlier.

Good luck
 

Ttrees

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A scrub plane will go blunt quite fast if your using it for tearout prone timber.
A scraper will go blunt straight away, no point using one for dimensioning timber
and they won't give you as good of results that a smooth plane will give anyway.
Set the cap iron close and take off honking shavings with a no.4.
You should be looking to have full width straight shavings, if you set it closer again
you will have an unbeatable polished finish on the timber.

If your finding it difficult to remove the camber, then use the corner of your stone on the middle of your blade to remove it.
It does take a level of refining to get that "unnoticeable to some" camber correct, as you won't have experienced how much this means need it perfect if you have not set the cap close before.
There is no room for error.

Half the time I will get a perfect camber with just a few strokes, the other half of the time
I frequently don't get it right upon reassembly of the cap, and have to go back to the oilstone with my razor sharp edge.
My recently acquired oilstone is getting flatter though, and hope things can speed up a bit if I can have a fool proof system of honing and maintaining this large stone.

Tom
 

ED65

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thetyreman":2zm8ofmn said:
I counted 132 rings in the space of 6 1/2" :eek:
That'll be the reason then. In slow-growth wood the proportion of latewood is higher. In addition to being harder the board should be noticeably heavier than typical for beech.

thetyreman":2zm8ofmn said:
I have to plane it down from over 1 inch thick to 7/8"
I hope you're planing diagonally or straight across! And using a traditionally set up jack or other roughing plane.

thetyreman":2zm8ofmn said:
I am going to make a 55 degree smoother soon...
Do you primarily want to do the build and then have a plane you made yourself, or is it mainly for the bedding angle? Just asking because a standard bench plane with a 10 microbevel on the back will get you there faster, with all the advantages having the iron in such a plane entails.
 

ED65

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Ttrees":rw2aeafe said:
A scrub plane will go blunt quite fast if your using it for tearout prone timber.
Er, what?
 

Ttrees

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If you have tearout prone stuff that has no correct direction to plane in, and is very hard this will be the case.
Plenty of iroko examples like this, as in not uncommon to find really dense stuff.
When doing stock preparation for all of my reclaimed stuff, I used to write WFH on them after using the scraper to get them flat. :lol:
You will just take chunks out of the grain and be slamming into it rather than taking shavings.

I've since used some of this stuff and it gives off a lovely shine compared to the scraper when smooth planed with the cap real close.
Tom
 

thetyreman

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ED65":2q2kspyx said:
thetyreman":2q2kspyx said:
I counted 132 rings in the space of 6 1/2" :eek:
That'll be the reason then. In slow-growth wood the proportion of latewood is higher. In addition to being harder the board should be noticeably heavier than typical for beech.

thetyreman":2q2kspyx said:
I have to plane it down from over 1 inch thick to 7/8"
I hope you're planing diagonally or straight across! And using a traditionally set up jack or other roughing plane.

thetyreman":2q2kspyx said:
I am going to make a 55 degree smoother soon...
Do you primarily want to do the build and then have a plane you made yourself, or is it mainly for the bedding angle? Just asking because a standard bench plane with a 10 microbevel on the back will get you there faster, with all the advantages having the iron in such a plane entails.
yes and yes for the first two

I am aware of the back bevel trick but would rather not start doing it, the plane blank arrived today and I also have a really nice hock iron/cap iron set so it's going to be made, there is no turning back now.
 

Ttrees

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You say you don't want back bevels or presumably steep steep secondary bevels, yet you are opposed to using the close set cap iron, on a plane you have already, I don't get it ? Hope you make a tote for that high angle plane you want to make. I wonder what use it will be after it turns out that you prefer a bailey. Good steel and all that but I would want to put it to a necessary use instead
 

thetyreman

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I'm not 'opposed' to having a very very tight cap iron though, I have not said that, and there will be no tote, I am making a krenov style plane with a hock blade and cap iron, it's going to work just fine despite your obvious doubts, can't wait to show it off. I'm not going to 'prefer' a bailey, what are you some kind of mind reader? you can predict the future and tell me what I'll prefer, lol that's a good one.
 

Ttrees

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I'd be concerned about developing carpel tunnel syndrome with no tote Ben. Your, what I'd call opposition to the cap iron set closely, is because you seem to think a regular Bailey plane with an open mouth and a close set cap iron isn't up to the job. One could argue that they would get away with a lower than 45 degrees bed angle for comfort. I don't think any plane without a tote for dimentioning will be comfortable to use compared to a Bailey for instance. Tom
 

thetyreman

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Ttrees":19o31kq8 said:
I'd be concerned about developing carpel tunnel syndrome with no tote Ben. Your, what I'd call opposition to the cap iron set closely, is because you seem to think a regular Bailey plane with an open mouth and a close set cap iron isn't up to the job. One could argue that they would get away with a lower than 45 degrees bed angle for comfort. I don't think any plane without a tote for dimentioning will be comfortable to use compared to a Bailey for instance. Tom
so krenov was wrong then?

I'm not going to get into another pointless argument with you, cheers.
 

MikeG.

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There are dozens of ways of skinning most woodworking cats. Some people here, however, are (to mix metaphors) one trick ponies.
 

Ttrees

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Good is good, but not when better is expected.
The inventor of the double iron figured out that guys, a long long time ago.
 
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