Planers, planer/thicknessers, and thicknessers

[Knot Competent]

I want to do some general woodwork, and I need a machine to smooth wood for me. Can someone please tell me which of these machines I need, and why they're different? Can you use a thicknesser to plane one face, then take it down to finished thickness on the other face? Or do I need a planer/thicknesser for that? Please advise a rather confused would-be wood butcher!

 

[RobinBHM]

A surface planer is used first to produce 1 face and 1 adjacent edge which straight, flat and 90 degrees to each other.

The next process is to feed the wood through a thicknesser which will machine the other 2 faces.

The thing to understand that a piece of sawn timber is not flat. It will be bowed, cupped, twisted -either one or all of these to some extent. There is some skill in eyeing a piece of wood to read its shape and then pushing over a planer to flatten the first face. A thicknesser wont do this, the feed rollers will flatten out the timber during machining and will come out with the same faults it started with.

You need a combined planer thicknesser which does both operations, each done seperately.

 

[Knot Competent]

Thanks Robin, you've made that easy to understand, and I'm grateful.

Regards, John

 

[Steve Maskery]

That is a perfect explanation.
The next q is what machines you need. I have a combo. It's a Kity 637 and does both operations. I don't use it all day every day, so I don't mind the fact that it is a PITA to change from surface planing (jointing if you watch US woodies) to thicknessing, ( planing if you watch US woodies). The confusion comes from the term "planing" which means two different things on either side of the Pond.

If I had the funds (I do now have the space, gloat, ) I would have separates, to save all that changeover stuff but it is more expensive and more space-intensive.

 

[custard]

You can plane one face reasonably flat by hand (not perfectly flat all over but sufficiently flat so that it doesn't rock) then flip it over and pass it through a "lunch box" thicknesser such as one of these,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jwp-12-b ... hicknesser

Take a few light cuts (say 0.5mm or 0.75mm) until the second face is flat, flip it back over and bring the first face down to perfectly flat, then keep flipping it back and forth as you bring it down to finished thickness. It's not the perfect system (that costs well north of £1,000), but it works. I did it for several years when money and space were tight and produced a lot of hardwood furniture that I'm still very happy with.

The workshop where I trained didn't have electricity until the 1960's, and they still managed to produce furniture that today commands tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds at auction. The trick is to be realistic about the projects you undertake, using this approach to build a sixty foot ketch or a Carlton House Desk in Macassar Ebony is probably a step too far for a hobbyist. But modestly sized furniture in reasonably forgiving hardwoods like Elm or American Cherry is perfectly do-able.

Good luck!

 

[rafezetter]

You can plane one face reasonably flat by hand (not perfectly flat all over but sufficiently flat so that it doesn't rock) then flip it over and pass it through a "lunch box" thicknesser such as one of these,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jwp-12-b ... hicknesser

Take a few light cuts (say 0.5mm or 0.75mm) until the second face is flat, flip it back over and bring the first face down to perfectly flat, then keep flipping it back and forth as you bring it down to finished thickness. It's not the perfect system (that costs well north of £1,000), but it works. I did it for several years when money and space were tight and produced a lot of hardwood furniture that I'm still very happy with.

The workshop where I trained didn't have electricity until the 1960's, and they still managed to produce furniture that today commands tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds at auction. The trick is to be realistic about the projects you undertake, using this approach to build a sixty foot ketch or a Carlton House Desk in Macassar Ebony is probably a step too far for a hobbyist. But modestly sized furniture in reasonably forgiving hardwoods like Elm or American Cherry is perfectly do-able.

Good luck!

This ^^. I fell into the same trap as you and because of this I have a planer thicknesser - a good old one (that cost £450 and it's probably 3rd hand at least), but the important point is as yet I've still not used the planer top at all - in 2 years of owning it. I still find it simpler to take the worst of the twist / cup etc out of a board by hand with my scrub plane to a point I can put it through the thicknesser. To make that even simpler I've made a sled so I can use wedges to remove the chance of the rollers pushing the wood down instead of cutting it. I find this also helps me improve my hand planing skills so I use the thicknesser less often than I thought I would. Yes it takes a bit longer but I feel that relying solely on machines isn't always a good thing.

Having said that I recently made a cubby display and found the thicknesser invaluable for cleaning up and dimensioning 14x 750mm x 75mm reclaimed boards in less than 30 mins using a sled.

So, as you are just starting out I would advocate buying a breadbox style thicknesser - which you can make jigs for to get more from them, then down the road buy a combi planer / thicknesser if it becomes apparent you NEED it, and not because you only think you need it.

 

[heimlaga]

For many years as a hobbyist I planed all my wood by hand. It was perfectly doable but it consumed quite a bit of time. My philosophy was to hand plane until I can afford to buy a proper machine. Then I bought a 60 years old 10 inch Ejca planer/thicknesser combination secondhand for 800 euros and rebuilt it for 150 more. Suddely woodworking became a lot more fun and I became a lot more productive.

One and a half years later woodworking became a side income and not just a hobby so I sold the Ejca and got my money back and and bought a secondhand 24" capacity Stenberg combination but that is another story. The Ejca would have been good enough for a lifetime of hobby woodworking.

Looking back I did the right thing. If yuou are seriously into woodworking you are bound to outgrow an entry level machine. The market is flooded with secondhand entry level machines so you aren't likely to get your money back when selling it. Then I would have been stuck with an outgrown entry level machine and no funds for an upgrade. Caught in a limbo. A secondhand machine of decent quality only costs a little bit more.

The planer/thiocknesser combination versus separates discussion is as old as woodworking machines. If I had enough cheap workshop space I would prefere separates. They save some changeover time and one can keep the settings on one machine while going to another for a cut. Separates require less planning ahead. On the other hand a planer/thicknesser combination saves a lot of valuable space or one can squeeze in mote machining capacity into a given space. That is a very important factor for most hobbyists and also for many one man businesses. The lost setup time costs nothing compared to the cost of a larger workshop.
On the secondhand market moderately sized separates also tend to be cheaper than combinations. This is because they are too small for industry yet take up too much space for many hobbyists. I recently saw a top quality all cast iron 10 inch surface planer sell for 300 euros secondhand.

Choose what fits you best. There is not and will never be a one size fits all in woodworking.

 

[Jacob]

.......Yes it takes a bit longer but I feel that relying solely on machines isn't always a good thing.........

It's really useful to be able to use all other means when necessary. I've just done a load of hand planing, face and edge on some long heavy pieces, because getting them straight over the top of a planer is a huge wrestle even with rollers and other assistance. But now I can bung them through the thicknesser very easily.
Horses for courses. They all involve craft skills - machines take out the work but still demand skill, judgement, practice etc to get good results.

 

[Knot Competent]

Thanks for all the information and opinion, guys. All quality advice!

Think I'll go for a thicknesser, it seems to do what I need it to.