Photographing work in customers house - a violation or not?

[rafezetter]

I have just finished a section of work for a customer who then decided she thought I was charging her too much (£15 an hour) and asked me to leave before full completion of discussed work.

Anyway I have now had an angry text claiming that taking photographs of the work I carried out is a violation of her privacy, that I should have asked her consent prior (I told her I would) and that she should have been present during.

Is any of this true?

I had taken photographs because I don't trust her to be truthful about what I did and how I left it. The rooms were empty, so there was no personal belongings on display and the photo's were to show I left the rooms clean, tidy and no damage to the new floors that had been laid.

I would appreciate any input on this.

 

[Noel]

I have just finished a section of work for a customer who then decided she thought I was charging her too much (£15 an hour) and asked me to leave before full completion of discussed work.

Anyway I have now had an angry text claiming that taking photographs of the work I carried out is a violation of her privacy, that I should have asked her consent prior (I told her I would) and that she should have been present during.

Is any of this true?

I had taken photographs because I don't trust her to be truthful about what I did and how I left it. The rooms were empty, so there was no personal belongings on display and the photo's were to show I left the rooms clean, tidy and no damage to the new floors that had been laid.

I would appreciate any input on this.

Wouldn't worry too much. After all assume you were taking photographs of your work and you gave her notice that you would. If your customer considers £15/hour too much she'll hardly be considering £50+/hour for any legal comeback. Good chance somebody was in her ear saying "what, £15/hour?"etc.
Ignore her texts and move on.

 

[Chris152]

I used to have to consider some legalities of certain types of photo images for work - from the perspective of a photographer, not a lawyer tho. I'd say that if they did try to make an issue of it, your defence would be strong - that you were merely documenting your work done, which would seem very reasonable under the circumstances. I wouldn't share the images anywhere tho - that could be construed as an invasion of privacy I'd think.

 

[Trevanion]

I have just finished a section of work for a customer who then decided she thought I was charging her too much (£15 an hour) and asked me to leave before full completion of discussed work.

I had taken photographs because I don't trust her to be truthful about what I did and how I left it.

I hate people like that, £15/h is basically the absolute minimum most self-employed tradespeople will get out of bed in the morning for, and that's around here where the wages are lowest in the country! If I have any inkling that I might have trouble with someone paying or being difficult I simply will not bother with people like that anymore. I've had a couple of bad ones now where I saw early warning signs and thought "I'll be worth it in the end" and it's simply not worth the stress and hassle by the end of it, no matter the money.

I'd say you're well within your right to take photographs as a record of work undertaken, especially if there's nothing that could actually violate her privacy in the photographs. It's not like you broke into her house and started taking photos of her underwear drawer, you were there in her private space with permission to undertake work agreed with the customer.

 

[stuartpaul]

........

I had taken photographs because I don't trust her to be truthful about what I did and how I left it. The rooms were empty, so there was no personal belongings on display and the photo's were to show I left the rooms clean, tidy and no damage to the new floors that had been laid......

This is why you took them. Tell her, also tell her given her current attitude your glad you did!

 

[Rich C]

People have a lot of strange ideas about what you can and can't take photos of. You were in her house with permission so I don't think she has any grounds to complain. Not to mention as noted she's not going to pay for a solicitor.

£15 an hour is pretty cheap, I'm not sure what she's expecting to pay, but I think she'll be disappointed by the workmanship if she wants cheaper.

 

[RobinBHM]

I have just finished a section of work for a customer who then decided she thought I was charging her too much (£15 an hour) and asked me to leave before full completion of discussed work.

Anyway I have now had an angry text claiming that taking photographs of the work I carried out is a violation of her privacy, that I should have asked her consent prior (I told her I would) and that she should have been present during.

Is any of this true?

I had taken photographs because I don't trust her to be truthful about what I did and how I left it. The rooms were empty, so there was no personal belongings on display and the photo's were to show I left the rooms clean, tidy and no damage to the new floors that had been laid.

I would appreciate any input on this.

Sounds like you have a horrible customer.
They happen.

I hope you arent out of pocket.

Not sure about the photos -but she is clearly just trying it on to cause trouble.
Perhaps images should be nentioned in terms and cinditions

I never do business by text -I tell all customers email only, that way there is a correspondence stream.

 

[Steve Maskery]

As a rule of thumb, there are approximately 1000 billable hours in a year. That does not mean you will work only 1000 hours, you will probably work more than twice that, but hours that you can charge for, 1000. That means you are running a business with an 11.5K turnover, out of which you have to take all your costs. Anything left is yours to live on.
Mate, you seriously need a business plan. And this advice is from someone who, despite having an MBA, was, himself, very mediocre at being self-employed.
It's not easy, I know it as well as anybody, but I'm afraid you are on a hiding to nothing.
£15/hr is sensible only if you are lousy at what you do, that that really is what you are worth, and I'd very much like to think that that is far from the truth.

 

[Doug71]

Not sure on the photos thing, I take them on all jobs, always ask the customer but never publish them anywhere.

£15 an hour is very cheap, Gosforth Handyman just did a few videos on his Youtube channel about pricing, he reckoned £30 per hour is minimum you need to charge.

 

[rafezetter]

I have just finished a section of work for a customer who then decided she thought I was charging her too much (£15 an hour) and asked me to leave before full completion of discussed work.

Anyway I have now had an angry text claiming that taking photographs of the work I carried out is a violation of her privacy, that I should have asked her consent prior (I told her I would) and that she should have been present during.

Is any of this true?

I had taken photographs because I don't trust her to be truthful about what I did and how I left it. The rooms were empty, so there was no personal belongings on display and the photo's were to show I left the rooms clean, tidy and no damage to the new floors that had been laid.

I would appreciate any input on this.

Sounds like you have a horrible customer.
They happen.

I hope you arent out of pocket.

Not sure about the photos -but she is clearly just trying it on to cause trouble.
Perhaps images should be nentioned in terms and cinditions

I never do business by text -I tell all customers email only, that way there is a correspondence stream.

Thankfully not out of pocket - she paid my last invoice but I did have an ace up my sleeve for that, not by deliberate design just happened that she asked me to leave the job friday afternoon with some snaggings left, so I told her (all by email) that if she paid my final invoice I'd complete those FoC as well as get my tools, which she did, so I did as promised to the same level and took photos of that too.

The email thing - she sent me the complain in two LONG texts, to which I simply responded "please contact me with all grievances by email, this way we both have a record of correspondence and what was stated within it, should it ever become necessary to refer back to it at any point in the future. All texts sent from this number (meaning hers) will be automatically deleted without reply."

Hopefully she will understand that if she wants to badmouth me she'll have to go through my official email and I'll have a record. With luck this will deter her.

Thing is I've dealt with this woman for almost 2 years on and off without issue doing lots of stuff she's always been happy with - I think someones bended her ear and convinced her my work is too expensive! I did also tell her that this rate was partly because I had other work that was scheduled fall through for very understandable reasons and I normally charge more.

Thanks for all your supportive replies, this is the first time I've come across this accusation and with the way things are now with privacy laws etc, I was beginning to wonder if she was actually right.

*phew*

 

[rafezetter]

As a rule of thumb, there are approximately 1000 billable hours in a year. That does not mean you will work only 1000 hours, you will probably work more than twice that, but hours that you can charge for, 1000. That means you are running a business with an 11.5K turnover, out of which you have to take all your costs. Anything left is yours to live on.
Mate, you seriously need a business plan. And this advice is from someone who, despite having an MBA, was, himself, very mediocre at being self-employed.
It's not easy, I know it as well as anybody, but I'm afraid you are on a hiding to nothing.
£15/hr is sensible only if you are lousy at what you do, that that really is what you are worth, and I'd very much like to think that that is far from the truth.

Steve very kind of you to say - Yes I AM worth far more, next time you are at Erikthevikings ask him to show you my repairs to his exterior walls, I GUARENTEE you'll never see them (more than 10 feet away I have trouble spotting them); problem is I'm still at the "getting established" phase of this particular venture and only have (had) 4 regular customers, one of which is Eriktheviking and a friend so he gets mates rates, one is my father and pays slightly more because I have to travel to london for it, one is an old friend who gave me the bump to do this as a job and the last was this woman.

Once I start getting more people the rate will go up, but then there's the balance of will I get enough people willing to pay it?



I'm not earning anywhere near enough, but it IS enough to live, the rest will come with time I hope.

 

[thetyreman]

you are within your rights to take photos of your own work, it's not an invasion of her privacy or her rights in any way, unless she stated that verbally before you started the work or it was written in some kind of contract, also agree with others that you aren't charging enough, worth watching the gosforth handyman vid, it's very sobering.

 

[Inspector]

I can't comment about your rates nor the legality of picture taking but don't delete those text messages as they would be admissible here if needed. If nothing else screen capture them and save them to your computer so they can be printed. Then you can compare any emails to the texts to see if they are consistent.

Pete

 

[dzj]

Steve very kind of you to say - Yes I AM worth far more, next time you are at Erikthevikings ask him to show you my repairs to his exterior walls, I GUARENTEE you'll never see them (more than 10 feet away I have trouble spotting them); problem is I'm still at the "getting established" phase of this particular venture and only have (had) 4 regular customers, one of which is Eriktheviking and a friend so he gets mates rates, one is my father and pays slightly more because I have to travel to london for it, one is an old friend who gave me the bump to do this as a job and the last was this woman.

Once I start getting more people the rate will go up, but then there's the balance of will I get enough people willing to pay it?



I'm not earning anywhere near enough, but it IS enough to live, the rest will come with time I hope.

You have to advertise. Print some flyers, leave a stack of business cards at a hardware store...
It doesn't have to be a costly operation.

 

[ColeyS1]

I'd like to know what she considered to be an acceptable hourly rate - £5 an hour....? We dont need people like this on our planet

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[MikeG.]

Why would the customer know your hourly rate? Surely you gave a price for the job, and that price was accepted before the job started. If so, then that's a contract, and A/ she doesn't get to renegotiate the contract in the middle of it without your agreement, and B/you have recourse to law if she fails to fulfill it.

 

[morturn]

I am assuming that you agreed an hourly rate with this customer to complete the work. In my experience this is a way of working that very often generates complaints.

The customer is paying you by the hour, you stop for a fag, cup of tea, take a phone call etc. the customer quickly gets annoyed and starts to feel they are not getting good value for money.

Pricing work on an hourly basis should only be done as a last resort, otherwise it’s a race to the bottom. Work out your hourly rate based on what you need to make a living and use this as the basis of working up a fix price quote.

As always in the building industry, there always will be unforeseen circumstances. You can either build in a contingency sum or agree an hourly rate for any unforeseen work.

With so many online suppliers, material prices are accessible for you to work up your material costs. There are also a few schedules of rates for building work kicking around to work up your hours. The NatFed schedule of rates or a lot of local authorities have them kicking around.

Doing quotes takes time, so you should include this in your hourly rate when you calculate it. Dealing with failure demand takes more time, and can cost you money and your reputation.

 

[DiscoStu]

You do not have the right to take photos inside any private property. You must seek permission. In addition you need to be careful what you are doing with the photos if you are there in a professional capacity then the chances are you’ll come under commercial law and that is very different to the law applied to someone taking photos in a stately home for example.

There May be very good reasons why people don’t want their homes photographed. For example when you take a photo on a phone it records the GPS data for where that photo was taken. If I happen to have an expensive antique painting on the wall worth £30k I might not want that photo appearing when someone does an image search and showing exactly where it is. There are also often good reasons around children and protection of them. You should always get permission.

I would suggest you have T’s and Cs that state you take photos to evidence your work and how you leave the work and rooms. These photos are never published without the owners permission. Then get permission if you want to use the photos on your website etc.



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[Distinterior]

I have been designing and installing kitchens for more than 37 years now and have always taken pictures of the work that I've done. Obviously, it is far easier to do so now due to the advent of digital photography.

Generally, if I plan to use some of the pictures I have taken on my website or publish them in some other way, I would inform the Client that I was planning on doing so......Usually, the Client is more than happy for me to do so as it shows I am proud of the job.

Having said that, I am not taking pictures of their house or property, I am taking pictures of my work/property/ goods because they have not yet paid for it all.......It remains mine until paid for in full.

In all these years, I have been fortunate that I have only twice had to take any form of legal action against a Client via the small claims court to get any final payment due to me and on both those occasions i had taken pictures of the jobs and used those pictures as evidence in the cases. The Judge in both cases accepted the photographic evidence i provided and there was never any question raised by either the Judges or the Clients as to the legitimacy of the pictures.
I won both cases in full along with late payment costs and loss of earnings whilst attending the small claims court hearings.

Admittedly, both these cases were some time ago in the 1990's and maybe things have changed now...?

 

[Lons]

Pretty much all of what the others said including Stu about careful use of the photos but in your case as the room was empty and your pics are only of your work you're on safe ground imo, just don't share them or at least not without editing and removing the data. It's easy to remove EXIF data from your digital photos btw, plenty of info on the internet.

I don't think there's a single job I did in 18 years that wasn't photographed and this was part of my t&c as I used some of them as marketing, I also always asked if I could refer potential customers to them if needed and I don't remember any objections and found that customers happy with my work were always willing to spread the word.

Cost the jobs properly and don't charge by the hour unless no other way and if they don't accept a fair quote then they are probably not worth bothering with.
You can always lower prices but very difficult to raise them so set your prices at a level where you can if needs be offer a small discount, you can always give a reason such as pensioner rate, good deal on materials this month - whatever . Always put an estimate / quote in writing and if possible ask them to sign a copy as it's for their protection as wel as yours, people respect that much more than a verbal quote or the back of a fag packet. Include stage and material payments as well if you can to minimise your risk of not being paid for materials.

Al that said, I know from experience how hard it is to get your business established and the worry of finding enough regular work to earn a living so it's all too easy to accept work at all costs.

Get your name out there, promote the quality of your work above all else because all customers really want is reliability, good work at a fair price and most accept a mid range quote not the cheapest. As suggested, business cards and flyers are cheap or print your own, get the family and friends to distribute them to houses and local business, go to the pub and ask around, loads of ways to promote yourself and not all flyers are thrown away, some people save them for future reference.

You're unlucky to get such a b*tch for a customer and it does seem she's been influenced by someone but it's a lesson to be learned. In the meantime, keep all correspondence including texts and file away but don't get into an exchange of slagging off if you call her bluff she'll almost certainly go away.
Do you have legal cover on your public liability insurance? You do have insurance don't you?

cheers
Bob