Passing Cyclists in UK with a car Genuine help question

[ajs]

I live in a nice village in Yorkshire which has a nice little deli/sandwich shop so we get more than our fair share of cyclists coming through.

My workshop is about 2 miles away and at least a couple of times a week I get stuck behind some cyclists, there is nowhere to overtake but plenty of places (driveways etc) they can pull to the side or even stop. I do find the more casual type always pull over to let me pass and give a friendly wave but the more serious type don't like doing this, they seem to get their head down and not worry about someone following them slowly for 2 miles. I know they have as much right to use the road as anybody else but I think this is just really bad manners.

Been there done that. Of course you can swerve in at a left hand T junction or whatever to let a couple of cars past. The problem is that the next car wants to be the last one through, and then the next and so on. They are all dangerously overtaking so you have to stop when you end up with nowhere to go.

The last thing any cyclist wants to do is stop, it takes time and effort to get back up to speed again. Which frustrates the drivers behind even more.

You know what? I don't do that anymore.

 

[Jameshow]

Most cyclists are also car drivers and vice versa, consequently it fascinates me these debates become so partisan. I have been runner, cyclist, motorcyclist, driver of several vehicle categories and agree the real point is that there are idiots on the roads- runners, skaters , scooters, motorcyclists, drivers, truckers. The one that scares me most is the guy I see commuting at 30mph in a 20 zone on an e-skateboard.
Of cyclists I find the most dangerous are the skilled riders- strong, fast, confident and always trying to beat their Strava pb- eye on time, ignoring hazards-it won’t happen. One of my coworkers was slipstreaming at 20 plus mph racing his friend when a pedestrian only saw one of the 2 cyclists and stepped into his front wheel . Reconstructive surgery and months off work. No car involved, just an silly person

Aka team sky!!

 

[paulrbarnard]

Been there done that. Of course you can swerve in at a left hand T junction or whatever to let a couple of cars past. The problem is that the next car wants to be the last one through, and then the next and so on. They are all dangerously overtaking so you have to stop when you end up with nowhere to go.

The last thing any cyclist wants to do is stop, it takes time and effort to get back up to speed again. Which frustrates the drivers behind even more.

You know what? I don't do that anymore.

So very true. Especially on a hill. That’s the one time I want a car to accelerate hard past me. The number of times I’ve had to come to a complete stop, unclip and then try to get going again when I’ve tried to ‘do the right thing’ makes you think hard before doing it again.

 

[akirk]

So very true. Especially on a hill. That’s the one time I want a car to accelerate hard past me. The number of times I’ve had to come to a complete stop, unclip and then try to get going again when I’ve tried to ‘do the right thing’ makes you think hard before doing it again.

I normally fall over - eventually got rid of the clips when I fell over on my drive before even setting off - as my (then 10yr old) godson cycled off into the distance laughing! Just not logical to have feet attached to the bike!

 

[RogerS]

For starters I'd tax parking spaces along the lines of the workplace parking tax.

​

So you propose penalising low-paid workers who have no access to public transport and so have to drive to work?

 

[RogerS]

He should have seen them in his mirror and he should have signalled that he was pulling out?

Stopping to let people pass obviously a good idea but if there's a lot of traffic the over frequent stopping and starting can make things difficult, particularly if you are going uphill and it takes an effort to get started again. Sometimes you have to put your head down and just pedal on

How do you know he didn't signal ? Anyway, your reasoning is flawed. If they are already overtaking him then there is no point in signalling, is there.

 

[deema]

Here is a classic example, at least sixteen riders, three abreast, spread out without gaps between them making them far longer than an articulated lorry. We could not pass as we could not leave the gap between the vehicle and the cyclists. However, vehicles coming the other way also would not be giving them the required passing distance. So should on coming vehicles stop?
In my experience around Cheshire a large group of cyclists like this is fairly common especially in summer.
The group of thoughtful road using cyclists are from the Cheshire Cycling Club. God bless them.

 

[Jacob]

Here is a classic example, at least sixteen riders, three abreast, spread out without gaps between them making them far longer than an articulated lorry. We could not pass as we could not leave the gap between the vehicle and the cyclists. However, vehicles coming the other way also would not be giving them the required passing distance. So should on coming vehicles stop?
In my experience around Cheshire a large group of cyclists like this is fairly common especially in summer.
The group of thoughtful road using cyclists are from the Cheshire Cycling Club. God bless them.
View attachment 159132

How did you pass them, how long did it take, how many miles, or are you still behind them as we speak?
I count 12 heads.
Not 3 abreast but not in parallel single files.
No traffic coming the other way?
Have you thought of having a few more driving lessons Deema?

 

[selectortone]

I think I recognise Jacob's bum among those cyclists.

 

[niall Y]

I have dipped in and out of this thread over the last few days. And a fairly reasonable question does seem to have morphed into a fight between ' good and evil'

So, as I understand it the argument runs like this -. "Cyclists have the moral high ground , after all they are saving the planet, Us car drivers on the other hand are destroying it with our wicked use of fossil fuels" So, it follows from this that anything a cyclists does is, therefore 'Gooood' and anything a motorist does is therefore 'Baaaad'

Or , am I somehow missing the point?

 

[paulrbarnard]

I have dipped in and out of this thread over the last few days. And a fairly reasonable question does seem to have morphed into a fight between ' good and evil'

So, as I understand it the argument runs like this -. "Cyclists have the moral high ground , after all they are saving the planet, Us car drivers on the other hand are destroying it with our wicked use of fossil fuels" So, it follows from this that anything a cyclists does is, therefore 'Gooood' and anything a motorist does is therefore 'Baaaad'

Or , am I somehow missing the point?

Yes you are missing the point. The point is cars can, and very often do, inflict serious injury of death on vulnerable road users. Because of the inherent risk to others posed by cars, car drivers absolutely must take far more care than the majority do. The whole entitlement to the roads issue is simply an argument to vilify and reinforce the “them and us” perspective inherent in any human interaction.

 

[Jacob]

I have dipped in and out of this thread over the last few days. And a fairly reasonable question does seem to have morphed into a fight between ' good and evil'

So, as I understand it the argument runs like this -. "Cyclists have the moral high ground , after all they are saving the planet, Us car drivers on the other hand are destroying it with our wicked use of fossil fuels" So, it follows from this that anything a cyclists does is, therefore 'Gooood' and anything a motorist does is therefore 'Baaaad'

Or , am I somehow missing the point?

Yes point completely missed. Try again?

 

[deema]

It’s amazing how the left wing among us decry, and insult when their perspective is called into question.
We were behind the 16 cyclists for about 10 mins until we found a safe place to pass them. As responsible drivers who try to obey the rules of the road, we sat patiently behind the cyclists until, we could overtake and allow the advisory distance between us and them. At times they rode two, three and even four abreast.
The issue is the interpretation of the law, I personally have no issue sitting for 30 minutes behind cyclists, I don’t care if we generate 50 miles of tailback, what I want to ensure is that we are compliant with the rules of the road. I leave it for others to judge how safe and appropriate cycling as a pod of sixteen is, or indeed how cycling up to four abreast is appropriate.
For me, the advisory rules are very difficult to interpret. Numerous cars passed the cyclists travelling in the opposite direction and none slowed down or stopped. I’d estimate the minimum distance I saw was less than four feet between a car travelling correctly in their lane in the opposite direction and a cyclist.

 

[Jacob]

It’s amazing how the left wing among us decry, and insult when their perspective is called into question.
We were behind the 16 cyclists for about 10 mins until we found a safe place to pass them. As responsible drivers who try to obey the rules of the road, we sat patiently behind the cyclists until, we could overtake and allow the advisory distance between us and them. At times they rode two, three and even four abreast.
The issue is the interpretation of the law, I personally have no issue sitting for 30 minutes behind cyclists, I don’t care if we generate 50 miles of tailback, what I want to ensure is that we are compliant with the rules of the road. I leave it for others to judge how safe and appropriate cycling as a pod of sixteen is, or indeed how cycling up to four abreast is appropriate.
For me, the advisory rules are very difficult to interpret. Numerous cars passed the cyclists travelling in the opposite direction and none slowed down or stopped. I’d estimate the minimum distance I saw was less than four feet between a car travelling correctly in their lane in the opposite direction and a cyclist.

Left/right has nothing to do with it. I'm a cyclist (or was until recently).
Sounds like you did the right thing.
If you think they were cycling illegally you could contact the police with your photographs. They seem to be wearing club logos so could be traced?
If you are still not sure of the highway code there's plenty on line and you should get yourself an up to date copy - even have a top up driving lesson?
n.b. from a cyclists point of view it's safer to travel in a group of 16 even if hogging the road, rather than strung out and creating 16 separate overtaking scenarios on what looks like a fairly narrow country road. Quicker for you too, even though it may not feel like it.
PS Narrow and winding two lane roads like the above actually have the highest accident and fatality rates. There is no margin for error, hence the 50 limit sign in the photo. If you overtake carelessly you could hit a car coming the other way, combined collision speed 100mph.
If the cyclists (group or singly) were going fast (20+mph) you'd have a job to overtake in the clear space available, without hitting 50; breaking the law and risking 100mph collision. Your hanging back for just 10 minutes sounds eminently sensible.
Congratulations for driving safely!

 

[glenfield2]

I’m a keen cyclist and having sat behind groups like the one above I much prefer riding solo or with a mate so I can make my own judgements about traffic. I regularly slow into safe spots on country lanes to let vehicles past (and rarely get a thank you wave!)
All the same my local group - it’s not a racing club - has its own guidelines about splitting into smaller packs on rides to ease overtaking.
My long time experience is that most drivers are ok to cyclists; some don’t give a damn. Generally school run mums or white van drivers. I refuse to be badgered into the edge by an oncoming vehicle that won’t slow on a single track road. They get the message and panic and scowl their way past on the verge.

 

[RogerS]

Yes point completely missed. Try again?

A very predictable response, Jacob, and ignores the photographic evidence that Deema gave. I seem to recall you posting that cyclists 'never' rode like those in the photograph. Seems to me that you use facts only when they suit your narrative/prejudices.

 

[RogerS]

...
Congratulations for driving safely!

Are you aiming for the 'Most Patronising Post of 2023' by any chance. In any case, do you really think the police give a toss about something like this ?

 

[Phill05]

How did you pass them, how long did it take, how many miles, or are you still behind them as we speak?
I count 12 heads.
Not 3 abreast but not in parallel single files.
No traffic coming the other way?
Have you thought of having a few more driving lessons Deema?

Jacob, instead of being augmentative you did not believe me when I said this is what is happening in Derbyshire open you eyes and close your mouth get out there and look for yourself.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, instead of being augmentative you did not believe me when I said this is what is happening in Derbyshire open you eyes and close your mouth get out there and look for yourself.

What happened exactly?
It seems that Deema was stuck behind a group of cyclists for a few minutes. He passed them when it was safe to do so. i.e. nothing happened at all of any significance to anybody.
Not even clear why he bothered to tell us, it does seem to be completely uninteresting.
NOTHING HAPPENED!
PS if you look at the photo you can see why they are out on the road - there's a drain grill and some badly filled potholes.
They probably swerved out but are not far out in the road and tightly bunched.
There's also a 50 limit so staying as a bunch makes it safer for all concerned.
They are not over the white line and nothing is coming the other way.
They seem to be approaching a bend so overtaking would not be possible anyway.

 

[deema]

Another example. Here we waited for a long time to pass and only after we turned off in another direction did we not follow behind them. What I’d like to know is that if I were to overtake on the opposite side of the road, all wheels beyond the white line is that compliant? I would not be the advisory distance away from them, but neither are on coming traffic. Here, the situation was four abreast, and cycling in such a way that with a van it wasn’t safe to try and hope the groups, they were spread out over a long distance, with insufficient ‘holes’ to leap frog them. Again, I don’t mind creating the longest tail back and I’m not raising any issues with how they are cycling, just how to safely and correct pass them.