Newbie tool advice - first decent handsaw

[davidw]

I'm looking to buy a decent saw. Mainly for cutting small tenons and dovetails. Current contenders include the Veritas carcass saw and the Adria small tenon saw but I'd happily look at others.

Can anyone comment on either of these or recommend any other saws I should be looking at?

The Veritas seems to be selling for around £60 whereas the Adria is more than double that. Is there that much difference in the quality of the tool or the work that can be produced with them?

Will a single rip saw like this be good enough to get me started or do I really also need a dovetail saw and/or a cross cut saw as well?

Does anyone know of anywhere in Dublin/Ireland you can see these kinds of tools in the flesh? the choice in most hardware stores seems fairly limited.

Thanks,
David

 

[Paul Chapman]

The Veritas saws are very good value for money and, in my experience, work as well as the more expensive saws. If cost is a major consideration, I would go for the Veritas - you won't be disappointed in the performance.

If you can only afford one, I'd go with a rip-cut because most of the cutting with dovetails and tenons is with the grain, although others might disagree. Rip-cut saws are also easier to re-sharpen yourself when that becomes necessary.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[János]

Hello,

if you afford only one saw, then buy a crosscut. A crosscut saw will rip-cut wood cleanly (and a little slower than a real rip saw), a ripsaw will not cut cross grain clearly (tenon shoulder etc.). For ripping a 10 or 11 TPI (teeth per inch) saw is the best. For crosscutting small work (widths under 2 inches or so) a 14 to 16 TPI saw is the best, for larger work a 11 to 13 TPI one, perhaps a 14 inches long large back saw.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Jacob]

Loads of good n cheap ones on ebay e.g. this one


Just search on tenon, dovetail,back saw etc.

They are as good as the last sharpening, otherwise there is not much between similar ones, as a rule.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

Yes, but it will probbaly need sharpening, and as its his first saw a new one might be best to start with, then learn shaprening and seting.


Pete

 

[barkwindjammer]

One of these :arrow: http://www.screwfix.com/p/bahco-prizecu ... w-12/34689

 

[bugbear]

Hi, Jacob

Yes, but it will probbaly need sharpening, and as its his first saw a new one might be best to start with, then learn shaprening and seting.


Pete

plus:
Buying a saw from a non-specialist on eBay is risky - kinks in the plate are hard to spot, and difficult to fix, and (often) the handle is loose and difficult to fix.

Even in person (e.g. car boot) you need to know what you're looking for, which a newcomer may not have.

Buy good, new is a safe route, and Veritas are (as has been mentioned) excellent.

BugBear

 

[rocksteadyeddy]

If it helps a couple of months ago I got the Adria small crosscut Tenon saw on a recommendation from my college lecturers. All I can say is that it performs very well indeed, and since its purchase the need to buy a dedicated dovetail saw (although I shall still at some point) has slipped down the priority list somewhat!
I don't have a wealth of experience with other saws but i'm more than happy with its performance in cutting dovetails.

I should however add that others in my class have the veritas offerings and although they perform well I have to say I wasn't that impressed with the quality control (one or two had rather poorly finished handles).


Hope this is of some help, all the best!

P.s. the Adria sure does look nice too!

Edd

 

[rocksteadyeddy]

Oh I hadn't noticed...... Welcome to the forum by the way!!

Edd

 

[Karl]

I'd go for a Japanese saw of this type. You can buy replacement blades cheaply enough, and you can even have a rip and a crosscut blade which use the same handle - this is what i've done. Just swap the blade over depending on which type of blade you need, for an outlay of £50ish.

Just another option.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Jacob]

One of these :arrow: http://www.screwfix.com/p/bahco-prizecu ... w-12/34689

Well to be realisitic hardpoint throw-away saws are extremely good value, if all you want is to saw wood.
I've got a couple (Draper cheapos) which have cut very well, though it has to be said - they are now past their best and are out-performed by my newly self-sharpened traditional Sanderson & Kayser hand saws.

 

[barkwindjammer]

I took the clues to be 'newbie', '£60' ,'small tenons and dovetails'
multiplied by the golden shower=£40ish to be spent elsewhere i.e. a h,,, a hh,,,,, a honing jig

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hard-point, throwaway saws are fine for general carpentry but as David said he wants to cut tenons and dovetails, I think we must assume he wants the saw(s) for rather more precise work. A saw designed specifically for what he wants to do would, IMHO, be better than a cheapo hard-point saw.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

I'd go for a Japanese saw of this type. You can buy replacement blades cheaply enough, and you can even have a rip and a crosscut blade which use the same handle - this is what i've done. Just swap the blade over depending on which type of blade you need, for an outlay of £50ish.

Just another option.

Cheers

Karl

I'd agree with Karl's thoughts here. I've been down the Western saw route and have tried most of them at one time or another, and none of them IMO do the job better than one of these bad boys from WH. Whether you like the Japanese way of sawing is a different kettle of worms and if you can't get on with them, then a Veritas (of some denomination) is your best and most economic option - Rob

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

I have:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/ice-bear-jap ... prod19703/
&
http://www.axminster.co.uk/ice-bear-jap ... prod22299/

You can buy the crosscut blade for the hassunme for £15 and then just change as needed.

 

[woodbloke]

Apart from four Jap saws from WH I also use one of these and I had one of these as a Christmas present from my son...I've almost got as many Japanese saws as Paul C's got honing gauges! :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Modernist]

Sad really that once great tool companies now peddle hand saws for £8 and it appears that is what the market wants.

I recently discovered how inferior my hard point Bahco hand saw is in comparison to a sharp S & J professional when cutting a quantity of 2" Am Cherry to length for stair treads. Sharpening is not such an problem if you get properly set up with some wooden chops to support the blade close to the edge and a proper saw file and set.

Yet another example of the confusion between price and value driven by our highly profitable supermarkets - damn them.

 

[davidw]

Thanks for all the replies.

I've decided to go with the Veritas for the time being. It seems like extra cost of the Adria (or similar) probably isn't worth it for me at the moment (although I do agree, it looks good).

I'll definitly try a Japanese saw at some point in the near future but for the time being I really wanted a western saw.

Thanks again for the all the advice. It's much appreciated.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Sad really that once great tool companies now peddle hand saws for £8 and it appears that is what the market wants.

But at the same time there are now plenty of excellent saws available (some custom-made if you want) from people like Veritas, LN, Wenzloff, Gramercy, Pedder, Cosman and others, most of which are equal to the best of yesteryear and at affordable prices. There was, sadly, a gap until these speciality manufacturers came on the scene but I think that today all needs are covered.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Modernist]

Sad really that once great tool companies now peddle hand saws for £8 and it appears that is what the market wants.

But at the same time there are now plenty of excellent saws available (some custom-made if you want) from people like Veritas, LN, Wenzloff, Gramercy, Pedder, Cosman and others, most of which are equal to the best of yesteryear and at affordable prices. There was, sadly, a gap until these speciality manufacturers came on the scene but I think that today all needs are covered.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

You are probably right Paul it just seems a little stretched in the middle. At least we have a choice which is excellent.