Mortice vise and method

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The idea for the mortice vise came from Shannon Rogers, who blogs as the Renaissance Woodworker. Mine is a gentle variation of his.

The other reason for this thread is to revisit the morticing method I use. Perhaps to illustrate how easy it is, even when it is my first mortice chopped in a month.

The idea is to use the face vise, in my case a leg vise, to provide a support for the work piece. This places the work piece over the leg, but on the bench, which is the most stable section of the bench from which to work. There are thise who hold the work piece in the vise, such as Paul Sellers, but I can olnly imagine that is both unstable (the board will slip down), and likely to damage the vise.

What we have here is a scrap of Tasmanian Oak to which I added 400 grit sandpaper as non-slip.

The board is clamped in the vise, at the height needed. A Veritas Wonder Dog (with leather on the brass end) clamps the work piece against the support.

My preference is to pare away the top mm of the mortice. This defines the perimeter ..

Then drill a hole at the one end ...

Below: This is the working position - facing down the board. This makes it easier to check that the the chisel is being held in the perpendicular ...

Incidentally, the shop made joiner's mallet is heavy - infilled with brass to a weight of 38oz.

The mortice is going to be about 2 1/2" long and about 1" deep. The wood is Tasmanian Oak, which is a little harder than European Oak.

The purpose of the hole is for the waste to have a space to move into. This can be seen below. Without this space, the chips will just jamb together.

The morticing consists solely of chopping down, with the bevel towards to hole. This forces the waste in that direction. By the half-way mark, the mortice is already at full depth ..

Each "chip" is about 1/8" apart. It does not take long to reach the end of the mortice ...

I use a sokosari-nomi to clear the chips ...

You can see the shape of the mortice bottom at this stage ...

Work backwards now from the middle to the start ...

The mortice is essentially complete. On fitting the tenon, one will check the sides and ends for square. However, since this is a test case, I sliced the mortice through the centre on the bandsaw to see the inside at this point in time ...

The sides look reasonably smooth and even ...

... and square.

Looking forward to more discussion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

....
The purpose of the hole is for the waste to have a space to move into. This can be seen below. Without this space, the chips will just jamb together. ...

No they won't. Try it without and you will see what happens.
Can't particularly see the point of all that clamping.

 

[Trafalgar]

Derek, essentially the same arrangement can be seen in Robert Wearing's The Essential Woodworker.

So many good quick release clamps these days it seems unnecessary -- assuming there's enough bench overhang, just clamp and go.

One Irwin Quick Grip clamp is all you need. The silver colored 'trigger' releases the clamp instantly, then you squeeze the other handle to tighten after repositioning (if necessary). An extremely solid hold. Not always a fan of Irwin, but these clamps are good - completely one-handed clamping and good clamp pads.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Charles, I have used the quick release clamps forever. They're good clamps, but you need two of them, otherwise the board twists. Also, it is harder to place the work piece over the leg. Over the leg is best. Anywhere else and I cannot look down the bench and the work piece (tail vise gets in the way at the other end).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Trafalgar]

It won't twist if you're malleting straight down.... trust me on this.... :wink: I mortise like this all the time. No twist. Stick a router pad underneath the workpiece if it still gives you fits. C-clamp and pads works too but not nearly as convenient as the Irwin.

That over the leg stuff is a tad over exaggerated IMO and not always possible in a small shop without insinuating yourself between the end of the bench and something else like a wall, a lathe, or something like that.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Charles, they are all just work holding. Choose your special brand of poison. If it works for you ...

The other part of this post is about method. It would be great is someone else demonstrated what they do. Show us what works for you.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Trafalgar]

Hope to get to that this weekend. Tomorrow is my wife's 50th birthday so I've got some things to do with my daughter to get ready. About to go shopping for a few last minute items. I'll post something by Monday or Tuesday at the latest -- promise. Might put a mortise in the piece of cherry you see clamped to the bench. Might as well. It's already there. It would take me about ten minutes to chop a five inch *rather* long blind mortise an inch deep. I don't know if that's fast or not. Seems to be a reasonable pace. I'm not sucking wind at the end of it so my cardiologist would approve.

 

[G S Haydon]

Thanks Derek, how long does it take to pare the surface, drill a hole and chop a 1/4" wide mortise that looks about 1 1/2 deep? I must admit I don't have problems with waste jam. The vise is fine for small mortise work like yours, well a QR vise is, not sure about the fashionable leg vise though.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Graham, I did not time myself. I'd be estimating ... without the photographs, I could get through all that in less than 10 minutes, and that includes marking out, which probably takes an equal amount of time.

Keep in mind that if speed, per se ... which is different from efficiency ... if so important, then use power tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[AJB Temple]

For the sake of adding to the debate. I am mostly cutting quite big mortice slots at the moment in quiet hard English oak. Typical size is around 6- 8" long by up to 2" wide and between 2" to 3" deep (as I need long tenons to peg them safely). I don't need to worry about clamping the work - typical weight is 70 - 100kg.

Variations have included:
Knife all round and cut in the traditional way. Fine for smaller mortises.
Use chain mortiser - very quick - and clean up by hand. Only snag is I have to work at ground level for that. Plus I like to have someone to hand nearby as chain mortiser is a bit scary. Does a very accurate job though and is unbeatable for deep slots.
Drill out and clean up with chisel
Mark all round and route out. Clean up with chisel. If I need a chamfered end (angled tenon on braces) I do that with a chisel.
Fein multicut - surprisingly effective at trimming the sides.

 

[G S Haydon]

Thanks Derek! Time is a good barometer and it might be worthwhile adding in. As you rightly point out it's not about the speed, but if the process takes to long it perhaps indicates the approach is removed from an concise and effective solution? I've not seen the hole drilled in trade books or the recess, however I have seen the recess shown in a home woodworking book.

I'll see if I can get a bit of time tomorrow to have a play.

 

[Jacob]

Keep in mind that if speed, per se ... which is different from efficiency ... if so important, ....

It is important the two are inseparable. Faster you do job A the longer you can spend on job B, which must mean a better result.
For me that's one off the attractions of handwork, when I get the opportunity to use it - it's about how much can be done, so quickly, with so little.
Resorting to all the amateur magazine/book techniques and extra bits of kit, seems such a pity.
In fact it was one of my first lessons - how to cut a mortice. I had no idea and would poke about with the chisel at all angles plus clamps, drills etc. sitting down even! :shock:
The tutor (elderly retired joiner) showed me how to do it the fast way - chisel (always vertical no levering), mallet, bench top, no other kit.

PS the advantage of a mallet is that you can hit hard, confident in not hitting your hand, nor spoiling your chisel, and also tap the workpiece if necessary, without risking a mark.

 

[Racers]

Once again their are only 2 ways of doing something, Jacobs way and the wrong way.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Once again their are only 2 ways of doing something, Jacobs way and the wrong way.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Pete

Feel free to do it how you like Pete.
I'm just trotting out what I was taught. And it works I've done it a lot - I made quite a few sets of joinery almost entirely by hand when I started up. Didn't have much kit (except a bandsaw from previous occupation).

 

[lurker]

Once again their are only 2 ways of doing something, Jacobs way and the wrong way.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Pete

If he would just leave it at "this is how I do it"

It has to be said his way is usually my way too.

 

[NickN]

Thanks for posting your comprehensive illustrated guide, as a complete beginner I find it very useful to see and read about different ways of doing things, as I can then chuck it all in a big thinking pot and come out with something that hopefully works for me, based on maybe several other methods.

There are those who hold the work piece in the vise, such as Paul Sellers, but I can only imagine that is both unstable (the board will slip down), and likely to damage the vise.

Indeed it can be unstable and slip, but in one of Mr Sellers' videos he overcame this by placing a piece of shelf liner (the rubbery white stuff with holes) in between the work piece and the jaws - held it absolutely firm after that. However I can agree that I would prefer to have a wooden workbench absorb heavy chops, rather than a cast iron vice.

 

[iNewbie]

Once again their are only 2 ways of doing something, Jacobs way and the wrong way.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Pete

If he would just leave it at "this is how I do it"

It has to be said his way is usually my way too.

......and Frank Sinatra's too.

Thanks for taking the time/photo's for your method Derek.

 

[D_W]

I use a single hold fast and go from one end of the mortise to the other with the bevel down, trying to get each sliver of chips out and take even predictable cuts so as to keep things rolling along. My first strike is about an eighth shy of the mark on one end so that I have a little something that can get bruised, and then that part is the last bit malleted out once I come back to get the first cuts to full depth.

Cuts inside the mortise are easier and faster if they are made on the diagonal, which a vertical strike on the chisel achieves if the bevel is in the cut.

 

[No skills]

Interesting, I've cut very few m&t by hand (one child's chair/one child's table and a couple of cabinet frames).
Having done this on a £9.99 workmate on the patio I can appreciate how removing any 'bounce' from the cutting process is quite important.

Seeing the 'cut backwards from the middle' part is a minor lightbulb moment - cutting my first mortises with no guidance had me getting to the end of the first pass of a mortise then wondering on best practice to get the rest of the waste out.

I wonder how the experienced folks judge depth of cut?, yes I know I can mark the chisel or use a gauge/measure - what I mean is do you cut a tad deeper than the tenon to allow for the roughness of the bottom of the mortise? Or maybe you cut as spot on as you can and allow for some compression of the fibres at the bottom of the mortise?

Quite possibly a stupid question but I'd like to know.

 

[D_W]

Interesting, I've cut very few m&t by hand (one child's chair/one child's table and a couple of cabinet frames).
Having done this on a £9.99 workmate on the patio I can appreciate how removing any 'bounce' from the cutting process is quite important.

Seeing the 'cut backwards from the middle' part is a minor lightbulb moment - cutting my first mortises with no guidance had me getting to the end of the first pass of a mortise then wondering on best practice to get the rest of the waste out.

I wonder how the experienced folks judge depth of cut?, yes I know I can mark the chisel or use a gauge/measure - what I mean is do you cut a tad deeper than the tenon to allow for the roughness of the bottom of the mortise? Or maybe you cut as spot on as you can and allow for some compression of the fibres at the bottom of the mortise?

Quite possibly a stupid question but I'd like to know.

Yes, cut a little deep. Depending on your mood, if you test fit the tenon and it's (the mortise) a 16th short, you can just trim some off of the end of the tenon. Can't say I've seen many applications where a 1" tenon holds and one 7/8th long wouldn't.

I had a bench for years that was insubstantial to say in the least, and mortising is one of the things where I noticed it the most. I went past the calibration mark on the bench I built (in terms of thickness of the top) and can't say it matters where the mortising is done on it, as Charlie says. Anywhere is good. I like to mortise near the edge, so my dog holes are set up so that I can do that. I also like to make planes, so my dog holes at the far end of the bench for the end vise are very close to the edge - in the first or second board (I can't recall and am too lazy to go look).