Mitre Saws

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Triggaaar

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Sorry for yet another thread, but I'm on a buying spree :)

One of my next jobs is laying an oak floor (only 130mm engineered), fitting skirting (about 6") and architrave etc, so if I'm going to get a mitre saw, now seems like the time to do it. I've just ordered a plunge saw for longer cuts, and I won't be getting a table saw due to space. I'd like it to be reasonably accurate, so I'm not faffing about tidying up cuts, but I don't think I could cope with a maximum cut of 130mm (it will get used for furniture, but I appreciate mitres will need work). I've done a lot of searches and there have been a fair few threads on the subject. The main point seems to be that if you want accuracy, and you want a large cut (read sliding), it's going to cost you. Sliding saws by even the decent brands generally seem to struggle with accuracy (although there are exceptions). I expect to have to pay at least £200 (happy to pay less), and want to avoid spending over £300. While I'm happy buying second hand, I worry that I wouldn't be able to get the saw accurate if it wasn't when I received it, and I had no help. I guess my priorities are: 1) Cut size (bare minimum 6", pref more) 2) Accuracy 3) Size 4) Features (double bevel) 5) Noise.

I'm thinking the best options are:

The Bosch GCM8S - about £279 - I think it's supposed to be fairly accurate, not take up too much space, and have a fairly large cut (long, but not deep)
The DeWalt (er. they've made so many I'm confused) DW777? £300 ish - because of so many models, I don't know which are more and which are less accurate. Also, I'm not sure about the DW777's dust extraction, which I believe can be good if you buy the extra parts needed, and have a 100mm extraction facility (I don't). The DW712 sounded good (maybe too big?), a reputation for accuracy (given that it slides), available new at under £300 at one point, but I assume it's an old model, and now over £300 for a reconditioned model.

The non sliding Makita LS1040 (£160) and DeWalt DW703 (£170) are probably more accurate, but their cut lengths are just a bit too low for me.

The Metabo (Elektra Beckum) KGS 255 seems fairly popular, but whenever I see it compared directly with one of the DeWalts, it seems to come second. I particularly like the fact it's a bit quieter (induction motored), but I'd only use that to choose if other things were equal.

I think the Makita LS0714 is a fair bit deeper than the Bosch and DeWalt models I'm looking at, which would probably count it out. Unless it's much better, in which case maybe I'd have to work around it's size.

The Bosch GCM10S (or 10sd, don't know the difference), DeWalt 718 and Makita LS1214 are all too big and too expensive to consider.

So what do you guys think of the Bosch GCM8S and comparable DeWalts, or alternatives?

Thanks
 
I have the big Makita LS1013 on a newly bought Metabo stand and its the nuts but its big and bulky to carry around as I do.

A couple of guys I work with just bought the smaller Makita saws http://www.screwfix.com/prods/27651/Pow ... -Mitre-Saw
Possibly these ones and I was surprised how good they are but they dont bevel both ways like mine and the cutting platform is very small. All though they are more portable.
 
I'm also eyeing up the Makita LS1013 that Chippy mentions. If you look on eBay, you should be able to find them available for a little more than £300. From what I've been told, the DW712 is one of the most accurate saws out there - DeWalt also claim it to be the most accurate saw they have produced; accurate to within 0.1°. However, it only bevels to one side of the blade. That Makita model will tilt both ways. A forum search (as I did recently) will also tell you that the LS1013 is highly regarded on here. :wink:
 
chippy1970":3ktn73ev said:
I have the big Makita LS1013
Oh yes, I seem to have missed that from my list. Searching these forums for LS1013 gives me a lot to read.
EDIT - wow, that's a popular saw. So much for not being able to get accuracy with an affordable slide mitre saw. Looks like it's available for £350 and great quality. It's much bigger than I'd like, I'd have to re-plan my method for using it. I still need to find more advice on the DW777.

Where some are rejecting a saw for having a base too small, I think that's a plus for me. If I incorporate it with a bench the small base won't be a problem, and it'll fit in my thin (6'6") workshop better.

It seems that it's not just sliding saws are less accurate than non sliding, but the bigger saws are less accurate than the smaller (so the 10" LS013 is more accurate than the 12" LS1014). Since I (and I think many of us) only just need the saw to slide at all (those fixed saws not quite cutting enough) I wonder if an 8" slider is the best compromise.

OPJ":3ktn73ev said:
From what I've been told, the DW712 is one of the most accurate saws out there - DeWalt also claim it to be the most accurate saw they have produced
Indeed, that's what I'd read here and elsewhere, but it doesn't seem to be available as cheaply as it once was.
 
If you can work with a 2in. maximum depth of cut then, yes, it would probably be a good compromise. However, the DW712 has a 216mm blade diameter with a maximum DOC of 70mm... :roll:
 
OPJ":38qiluzo said:
If you can work with a 2in. maximum depth of cut then, yes, it would probably be a good compromise. However, the DW712 has a 216mm blade diameter with a maximum DOC of 70mm... :roll:
I don't think I'd be happy with a max cut length of 5.5/6", but I think I could manage with a 2" maximum depth (assuming you could cut 2" timber at any angle, so the cut is actually greater than 2"). (EDIT - bosch spec on axminster says 60mm bax cut, but only 42mm bevel cut, which could be a problem). More would be better, but if it was sacrificing accuracy, or having a much bigger unit, I'd rather not. The reviews of the bosch are pretty glowing (see screwfix). I don't think I've seen any reviews of the DW777s accuracy (since the DW712 isn't very available), as that would be a good alternative (and I'd need a solution to the dust issue).
 
You could also consider a Nobex Champion, much more accurate ,lighter and quieter than the powered saws. If you carry a variety of blades they can be fast cutting for joists and clean cutting for architrave.
I've got a Champ and a Makita CSMS 305mm, I would prefer to get the champ out unless it's rough work like drywalling.

Simon
 
Oryxdesign":3nki0xnf said:
You could also consider a Nobex Champion, much more accurate ,lighter and quieter than the powered saws. If you carry a variety of blades they can be fast cutting for joists and clean cutting for architrave.
I've got a Champ and a Makita CSMS 305mm, I would prefer to get the champ out unless it's rough work like drywalling.

Simon

I had a Nobex Champion and sold it as soon as I got my first Elu chopsaw years ago. I still have my standard Nobex and use it for cutting hanging rails and small beads sometimes.
 
OPJ":mr4gk122 said:
That Makita model will tilt both ways.

The Makita ls0714 I mentioned doesnt tilt both ways as I said.

The LS1013 which is the one I have does tilt both ways.

Another note is that I know people who have had the LS1013 for 15 years or more when I bought mine last year to replace my old Elu two other guys on site bought LS1013's to replace their very old LS1013's (or what ever they used to be called back then).

There is only one thing I can fault on them and thats the portability they are awkward to carry but you get used to it :lol:
 
chippy1970":3mivo9xj said:
If you look here http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LS1016L-10 ... 083&sr=1-1 you will find a much better saw that I posted about a while back but as yet we dont have it here. I bet thats why the price of the ls1013 seems to be dropping here so they can clear them all before they release the new one.
Yes I saw the link you posted before. I also read the thread you started about the LS1013, which had a reply from MikeC with this link to reviews of the LS1013 on amazon (no doubt you read those then ordered the 1013 - is it as good as they said?). Those are some glowing reviews.

The soon to be released LS1016 might be pushing the price of the 1013 into my bracket, but there's no way the 1016 will be, so I shouldn't really look at it. It is making the LS1013 very tempting though. But it's more machine than I need. Double bevel, nice, but I don't need it. A larger cutting capacity than I need and a bigger machine than I want. But the accuracy is tempting, and it's possible I could work around the size issue.

However if I found that either the more compact DW777, or 8" Bosch were as accurate, they'd probably do me (I think the 10" DW maybe more suitable for a workbench than the 8" Bosch).
 
Oryxdesign":2k5jvnca said:
You could also consider a Nobex Champion
Thanks Simon. I'm quite happy with normal handsaws, but I'm not sure how good I'd be with mitres, and although I'd like to have accuracy with my chop saw (seems silly to save £150 for an inaccurate version), I'm really wanting something powered to make lighter work of, for example, cutting oak.
 
Triggaaar":5uw40p5n said:
reviews of the LS1013 on amazon (no doubt you read those then ordered the 1013 - is it as good as they said?). .

I didnt need any reviews as on my edited post above you can see I know a lot of people who have used them for years in fact I myself have used LS1013's for years but never owned one until last year.

As a side note what plunge saw did you order ? you know with a simple jig you can cut the flooring with a plunge saw. I quiet often use my TS55 to cut flooring when I dont want to lug my chopsaw on to the job, also the dust extraction is better on my TS55.
 
chippy1970":mbkd47yb said:
I myself have used LS1013's for years but never owned one until last year.
So are you thinking of upgrading? I can buy your 1013 :)

As a side note what plunge saw did you order ? you know with a simple jig you can cut the flooring with a plunge saw.
I've got the DeWalt arriving in the morning (need to cut some ply for boxing in the bathroom). I didn't even think I'd need a jig to cut the oak with the plunge, I could just have the rail running across my temporary bench, and some kingspan either side of the oak plank, and plunge away (is it not that simple?) That way I wouldn't need the SCMS until I do the skirting and architrave, which will be in the new year.
 
Ive even cut mitres on skirting with the TS55 and they come out spot on but it is easier with the chopsaw.

There was a point when I thought I might sell my new LS1013 and wait for the new one but I have seen a few people moaning about the new one in the States. I suppose you get teething problems with a new model.
 
Triggaaar":o3od6ntp said:
I've got the DeWalt arriving in the morning (need to cut some ply for boxing in the bathroom). I didn't even think I'd need a jig to cut the oak with the plunge...

If you're doing a lot of 90° cuts, the DeWalt guiderail T Square may be a worthwhile extra, but as Chippy1970 says it's easy enough to knock up a simple jig for square cuts - I also have one for small mouldings and bits of trim that'll do 90° and 45° - turns a plunge saw into a very compact mitre saw with great dust extraction, perfect for using in peoples homes ;)
 
Sorry for the confusion, Chippy, but I was referring to the LS1013 model earlier. :) I'd assumed these were coming down in price for make way for the 'improved' version (add a laser line... :roll:) but, let's hope you're right - it would be great to see other saws on the market with space-saving rails. Might even stir up some competition from other manufacturers! :)

I also noticed on Amazon.com that, across the pond, they have the option of buying the LS1013 with a built-in worklight. :roll:
 
OPJ":o30id1os said:
Sorry for the confusion, Chippy, but I was referring to the LS1013 model earlier. :) I'd assumed these were coming down in price for make way for the 'improved' version (add a laser line... :roll:) but, let's hope you're right - it would be great to see other saws on the market with space-saving rails. Might even stir up some competition from other manufacturers! :)

I also noticed on Amazon.com that, across the pond, they have the option of buying the LS1013 with a built-in worklight. :roll:

I did see the 1013 for sale here in the UK with a laser but they seem a bit of a gimmick to me so I just bought the standard one thats been tried and tested for many years.

The new Makita looks a lot like the Kapex too.
 
Triggaaar":3kyz3x33 said:
It seems that it's not just sliding saws are less accurate than non sliding, but the bigger saws are less accurate than the smaller (so the 10" LS013 is more accurate than the 12" LS1014).
That's because any arbor run out is magnified more by larger blades and the larger the blade the more both it and the frame of the machine tend to flex. I've used both the LS1013 and the LS1214 side-by-side and I can testify to the 12in saw flexing more noticeably on large compound bevel cuts. Don't know if it's worth waiting for the LS1016, though, Makita UK say (2 weeks ago) that there aren't any immediate plans to release it here although that might because it has had a chequered start in the USA with lots of excessive blade run-out issues.

As to things which go wrong? The Makitas all use a cast detente system as opposed to deWalt's laser-cut steel plate - when the Makitas wear it requires a new sub-base casting as opposed to just a steel plate on most of the DWs. Against that DWs invariably need more frequent attention to the "off detente" blade locking (Maks use a simple screw/handle arrangement as opposed to the cam and lever of the DWs). Granted those comments come from prolonged trade usage which few hobby woodworkers would ever experience, but I thought the points were worth making

On the general design side having a double bevel is a real time saver on installation, but it's not an essential.
 
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