Making storm proof casement windows ?

[flanajb]

I am aware that this is achievable without specialist window tooling, but I want to ask whether anyone knows of a link explaining the process and each of the components.

My Wife and I are trying to find some land to do a self build and I would like to make the windows myself as I think I could save myself a fair amount of money rather than buying off the shelf ones and I can be making them whilst the brickwork is being done.

Plan is to have casements with a single centre spaced vertical muntin

PS - I also assume that I would have to purchase a spindle moulder as doing them with a router table would not suffice ?

Thanks

 

[AndyT]

RogerM did a very impressive and highly detailed wip on how he made new windows, without special tooling, which may well be exactly what you need: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/windows-a-first-attempt-wip-pics-t50850.html.

(Sorry to spoil your plan to smuggle an essential spindle moulder into your new workshop - but they are nasty noisy things and you don't need one to make windows!)

 

[Rob Platt]

go and have a look at a window somewhere for your sizings and see if you can work from that.
build most of mine with a table saw and a router.
TRADA do a book on windows
all the best
rob

 

[flanajb]

RogerM did a very impressive and highly detailed wip on how he made new windows, without special tooling, which may well be exactly what you need: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/windows-a-first-attempt-wip-pics-t50850.html.

(Sorry to spoil your plan to smuggle an essential spindle moulder into your new workshop - but they are nasty noisy things and you don't need one to make windows!)

Thanks for the link Andy. I agree spindles are quite intimidating pieces of kit.

 

[flanajb]

go and have a look at a window somewhere for your sizings and see if you can work from that.
build most of mine with a table saw and a router.
TRADA do a book on windows

I did think of looking at an existing window, but I came to the conclusion that they would have made that with a spindle and as a result done differently to one made without.

I will have a google for the book you mention.

Thanks

 

[tomatwark]

Yes you can do it without a spindle.

But it is a lot easier with one and if you are doing a self build and have one it means you can run other bits of mould that are going to be needed, instead of buying of the shelf and making do.

I would have a look around and see if any of the builders have an odd window that is near what you want kicking around that they will sell you cheap and use it as reference point.

The problem you may run into is that all new windows are meant to have an energy performance certificate and as it is a new build it may cause problems when you come to have the building past at the end of the build.

I would certainly check this out before you commit any time and money.

Tom

 

[flanajb]

The problem you may run into is that all new windows are meant to have an energy performance certificate and as it is a new build it may cause problems when you come to have the building past at the end of the build.

Now why does that not suprise me. I suppose it keeps the people doing the certification in jobs.

Mass legislation == mass employment. Do mass legislation and communism equate to the same thing?

 

[Dibs-h]

Depends ultimately on the BCOs in the locality where you build. If you are looking to do it near where you are - worth speaking to them beforehand.

Mine - I made my own casements (traditional) and door and he had no issues at all.

HIH

Dibs

 

[tomatwark]

Dibs

Was that before Oct 2010 when the regs got even more stupid ?

Tom

 

[Dibs-h]

Dibs

Was that before Oct 2010 when the regs got even more stupid ?

Tom

I fitted them last year. Well it felt like last year, but I've just checked the build thread of my shed and it was Spring 2010 when they were made and fitted. But I've seen my friendly BCO countless times since & I don't think his approach has changed much - i.e. use common sense and sod the rest. Well almost.

Here's the thread if it's of any interest - workshop-windows-casement-making-wip-now-t37462.html

Dibs

p.s. no spindle moulder nor router table were used in make them either.

 

[Modernist]

Why do you want stormproof - not the most elegant of designs.

I made my own tilt and turn, European style, triple glazed etc in Douglas Fir and had them passed without problem by the local BCO. There are some threads on WoodworkUK but it's down at the mo so I cannot post a link.

It's a lot of work especially if you do it with standard rather than dedicated SM tooling as I did, but it is possible.

 

[flanajb]

Why do you want stormproof - not the most elegant of designs.

I made my own tilt and turn, European style, triple glazed etc in Douglas Fir and had them passed without problem by the local BCO. There are some threads on WoodworkUK but it's down at the mo so I cannot post a link.

It's a lot of work especially if you do it with standard rather than dedicated SM tooling as I did, but it is possible.

I thought stormproof was the only option ?

 

[RogerS]

Are you really sure that you're going to save that much? Given the current state of the building industry I would have thought that you would be able to get pre-made windows to latest WER standards pretty cheaply....especially if you source the double-glazing units yourself from your cheapest supplier.

If you are set on making your own then check out the Mighton website as they publish a complete set/kit/drawings using their stuff naturally BUT if you go down their route then you don;t need to involve Building Control..well, at least from the window side of things....as Mightons' design has been 'signed off'.

 

[flanajb]

Are you really sure that you're going to save that much? Given the current state of the building industry I would have thought that you would be able to get pre-made windows to latest WER standards pretty cheaply....especially if you source the double-glazing units yourself from your cheapest supplier.

If you are set on making your own then check out the Mighton website as they publish a complete set/kit/drawings using their stuff naturally BUT if you go down their route then you don;t need to involve Building Control..well, at least from the window side of things....as Mightons' design has been 'signed off'.

I am sure I can save a fair bit. A decent hardwood casement window will set me back £400 for a 1600 * 1200. I reckon you could make it for £200

I will have a look at the Mighton web site.

PS - I am not sure the land purchase will come off anyway as I think the vendor will be greedy with what they want and go to auction. There will no doubt be some fool who will pay too much for it. Fingers crossed though as it has been a dream of mine for over a decade to build my own home.

 

[RogerS]

Having spent the best part of two years renovating a black-and-white do not underestimate just how long it is going to take you.....especially if you are going to be doing a lot of the other work yourself. If you're just project-managing builders, plasterers, sparks, roofers, etc then that puts a slightly different light on it but all the pundits say that you still need to be onsite as much as possible...not in the workshop.

 

[flanajb]

Having spent the best part of two years renovating a black-and-white do not underestimate just how long it is going to take you.....especially if you are going to be doing a lot of the other work yourself. If you're just project-managing builders, plasterers, sparks, roofers, etc then that puts a slightly different light on it but all the pundits say that you still need to be onsite as much as possible...not in the workshop.

Plan is to get a single building company to build the shell of the house including first fix plumbing / electrics and for me then to do all of the second fixing.

I refurbished the current house we are in, and got taken for a ride by the builders who did it. That was partly my mistake for paying day rate

This time around it will be a price job and I will be much harder with them so as to make sure they dont dick me around.

I also wonder whether getting them to do it on a labour only basis ends up costing more than if you supply the materials. Not sure if this affects you claiming all of that nice VAT back

 

[srp]

As Roger has said, the Mighton website should definitely be your first stop, as you'll avoid no end of problems with building regs. Personally I'd forget hardwood as well. It has no durability advantages over decent unsorted redwood (unless you use something unlikely like teak or iroko). Treat it with something like Cuprinol 5 star before you install, and then you have the option of conventional paints or a low maintenance finish like Sadolin.
You don't really need a spindle, but you will need a decent circular saw, bandsaw and planer thicknesser, as the unsorted redwood will be something like 225 x 75 and 225 x 63.

 

[RogerS]

Having spent the best part of two years renovating a black-and-white do not underestimate just how long it is going to take you.....especially if you are going to be doing a lot of the other work yourself. If you're just project-managing builders, plasterers, sparks, roofers, etc then that puts a slightly different light on it but all the pundits say that you still need to be onsite as much as possible...not in the workshop.

Plan is to get a single building company to build the shell of the house including first fix plumbing / electrics and for me then to do all of the second fixing.

I refurbished the current house we are in, and got taken for a ride by the builders who did it. That was partly my mistake for paying day rate

This time around it will be a price job and I will be much harder with them so as to make sure they dont dick me around.

I also wonder whether getting them to do it on a labour only basis ends up costing more than if you supply the materials. Not sure if this affects you claiming all of that nice VAT back

One wrinkle that might help. A friend of mine is a builder...basically a one-man band but subs out to trusted subbies etc. That way he is small enough to stay below the VAT threshold as far as his rates are concerned. He also works things with his building supplies merchant to let his client have the same discount..the client pays the bills directly..which again keeps my mate below his VAT threshold. Not sure if that helps or hinders and have no idea how that ties in with getting your VAT back.

 

[flanajb]

Having spent the best part of two years renovating a black-and-white do not underestimate just how long it is going to take you.....especially if you are going to be doing a lot of the other work yourself. If you're just project-managing builders, plasterers, sparks, roofers, etc then that puts a slightly different light on it but all the pundits say that you still need to be onsite as much as possible...not in the workshop.

Plan is to get a single building company to build the shell of the house including first fix plumbing / electrics and for me then to do all of the second fixing.

I refurbished the current house we are in, and got taken for a ride by the builders who did it. That was partly my mistake for paying day rate

This time around it will be a price job and I will be much harder with them so as to make sure they dont dick me around.

I also wonder whether getting them to do it on a labour only basis ends up costing more than if you supply the materials. Not sure if this affects you claiming all of that nice VAT back

That would be a good way to do it as I already have trade accounts with the builders merchants.

I might just put the work out to tender with recommended local trades. The only downside with that is that I am not around much to oversee the works. I could ask the Wife to take on that role :shock:

One wrinkle that might help. A friend of mine is a builder...basically a one-man band but subs out to trusted subbies etc. That way he is small enough to stay below the VAT threshold as far as his rates are concerned. He also works things with his building supplies merchant to let his client have the same discount..the client pays the bills directly..which again keeps my mate below his VAT threshold. Not sure if that helps or hinders and have no idea how that ties in with getting your VAT back.

 

[flanajb]

After a bit of research, I have decided to go for flush fitting casement windows rather than stormproof ones. They do look much more attractive than storm proof. Anyone know whether there are caveats associated with flush fitting casements and building regs?

Thanks