Low back welsh chair build

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ro

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2010
Messages
127
Reaction score
0
Location
New Forest
Well, its been a very, very, very long time since my last post, but I've recently started to get back into woodwork, so I thought I'd share my latest project.

After reading about low roman workbenches on the Lost Art Press blog (https://blog.lostartpress.com/2016/08/06/a-well-oiled-roman/) I got a little infatuated by the idea and had to make one. A trip to Yandles netted me a slab of lime and some ash for the legs. A quick flattening of the slab with a jack plane, ripping to width, boring 4 x 40mm holes (blooming hard work with an 8 inch brace) and turning up some legs later and I had this
DSC07269.jpg



high backs.jpg

Anyway, the plan is to make a low back version of the 2 high back chairs above, using the low workbench instead of my normal one. Now, I hate ripping, so I'm going to use my bandsaw for that, and I haven't decided whether I'll turn or shave the spindles. But apart from that, I want to explore workholding on this low bench. Currently the bench only has 2 peg holes at the end to give me a planing stop, but I'm sure I'll add more as I find out what I need.

So, while I was at Yandles, I managed to grab a lump of sycamore for the seat
DSC07275.jpg


The first job was to cut it to width. The bench excels at this. It's the same height as my saw benches so all I had to do was put one at the end and saw away. The extra length of the low bench made it much easier than using two smaller saw benches.
DSC07280.jpg


After checking for cupping and wind, i found one corner was higher than the rest, so a bit of work with the jack plane removed that. No clamping was necessary, I simply sat on the part of the slab that i wasn't planing!
DSC07286.jpg


As I mentioned before, I hate ripping, so I used my tracksaw to establish a nice clean edge on one side. Again, the bench acted like a big, stable, saw horse.
DSC07288.jpg


From here I needed to crosscut the piece into 2 equal halves and join them together along the edge I had just sawn to give me a blank for the seat. The sawn edge needed to be jointed and this gave me my first workholding problem. I would normally put the piece into the vice on my normal bench and edge joint it with a plane, but here I had no vice and the piece wouldn't balance on the opposite edge.
DSC07290.jpg


So, I bored a couple of holes 4 inches apart, turned up a couple of pegs with square tops and cut a wedge with a 1 in 5 slope out of some scrap oak.
DSC07295.jpg


Placing the piece against one of the pegs i used the wedge to hold it fast. This worked better than I had hoped, although the wedge needed a bit of hammering to get it to stay. Next time I'll try a wedge with a 1 in 6 slope and see if that holds any easier.
DSC07297.jpg


To release the wedge, I knocked the end of the workpiece with a lump hammer. The lightest of taps released the wedge's hold. I'm definitely going to use this method again. If anything it's easier and quicker to set up than a face vice and planing with one knee on the bench was really comfortable.

Leaving the waney edges on made for an "interesting" glue up. I could not get clamps to pull flat and at least once considered ripping the edges square, but I want to see i I can incorporate the natural edges in the design.
In the end I used an embarrassing number of clamps and blocks to hold it together.
DSC07304.jpg


Next, the legs!
 

Attachments

  • DSC07269.jpg
    DSC07269.jpg
    202.3 KB
  • high backs.jpg
    high backs.jpg
    223.1 KB
  • DSC07275.jpg
    DSC07275.jpg
    208 KB
  • DSC07280.jpg
    DSC07280.jpg
    196.3 KB
  • DSC07286.jpg
    DSC07286.jpg
    201.5 KB
  • DSC07288.jpg
    DSC07288.jpg
    211.4 KB
  • DSC07290.jpg
    DSC07290.jpg
    161.7 KB
  • DSC07295.jpg
    DSC07295.jpg
    157.5 KB
  • DSC07297.jpg
    DSC07297.jpg
    152.7 KB
  • DSC07304.jpg
    DSC07304.jpg
    252.7 KB
Thanks for that, it's always interesting to see other approaches to woodworking being explored in a real life project.

I found myself wondering if the Romans would have needed to glue up narrow boards and how they would have done it, without all those clamps.
Guesswork only, but I would assume that they did need to edge-glue narrow boards - big trees are always going to have been rarer and harder to fell and convert.
Older "modern" books show the use of hot glue, a rubbed joint and a pair of joiner's dogs for situations like this - I wonder if that's what they would have done?
 
AndyT":1m51g54s said:
I found myself wondering if the Romans would have needed to glue up narrow boards

Interesting point. When I visited Pompeii and Herculaneum I was surprised at the quality of the preserved joinery and furniture, I'd been expecting Barney Rubble style woodworking but it all looked pretty sophisticated. I can't recall seeing edge jointed boards specifically but, given that hide glue dates back to antiquity and would likely be cheaper than handmade nails, I can't see any reason why not.

Pompeii furniture 01.jpg


Pompeii furniture 2.jpg


Pompei furniture 03.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Pompeii furniture 01.jpg
    Pompeii furniture 01.jpg
    48.6 KB
  • Pompeii furniture 2.jpg
    Pompeii furniture 2.jpg
    46.4 KB
  • Pompei furniture 03.jpg
    Pompei furniture 03.jpg
    16.1 KB
AndyT":epesrlpl said:
Older "modern" books show the use of hot glue, a rubbed joint and a pair of joiner's dogs for situations like this - I wonder if that's what they would have done?
custard":epesrlpl said:
given that hide glue dates back to antiquity and would likely be cheaper than handmade nails, I can't see any reason why not.
Interesting! I've never tried rubbed glue joints. I wonder if they are as strong as clamped ones. If so, I'd save myself a load of bother with clamps.

custard":epesrlpl said:
When I visited Pompeii and Herculaneum I was surprised at the quality of the preserved joinery and furniture
Oh god, I think you've started me on another research rabbit hole...
 
If you don't mind a bit more topic drift, may I suggest this old thread - I think it's a good example of the collective forum wisdom being brought to bear on a historical example.

work-like-a-roman-t84609.html
 
I'm definitely up for a bit of topic drift. That is a fascinating thread - rabbit hole central :D

Anyway, on with the legs while the seat glues up...

I'm cutting the legs out of 2 inch ash with fairly straight grain. I've made a quick template out of MDF to make it quicker to mark out identical legs. The ash wasn't quite wide enough to cut 4 pieces out, so I staggered them slightly length wise to gain a bit more width. Marking up on this low bench is a joy, you can get your body right over the workpiece.
DSC07307.jpg


I then cut the pieces out freehand on the bandsaw, A small wedge inserted into the kerf allowed me to back the blade out.
DSC07312.jpg


I had already added 2 pegs at one end of the bench to act as planing stops, so removing the bandsaw marks was simply a case of popping one of the pegs up slightly and planing towards it.
DSC07316.jpg

Bizarrely I found that while I was doing this my legs started aching. It's almost as if I'm using the muscles in my legs to help move the plane. Apart from that, it was really easy to plane like this, sitting behind the workpiece meant that I could really power through the stroke.

Woot! 4 square tapered legs!
DSC07323.jpg


Next, octagonalising them. I made up a couple of cradles to support the legs on their corners. The first time I used them, they kept moving over the surface of the bench, so I glued a bit of leather on the bottom to add some friction. I planed down the corners with a jack plane with a cambered iron, taking a really coarse cut. It only took about 5 passes to take the corners down to where the legs looked octagonal. Then I put a finish cut on all the faces with a low angle jack with the mouth set really tightly.
DSC07324.jpg
DSC07328.jpg


Woot! 4 octagonal tapered legs!
DSC07330.jpg


The top of the legs will have a tapered tenon to plug into the seat. The tenons were roughed out on the lathe and then refined using a tenon cutter (built using these instructions). it works like a giant pencil sharpener, and is THE most fun tool ever!
DSC07331.jpg
DSC07336.jpg


Woot! 4 tapered tenons!
DSC07335.jpg
 

Attachments

  • DSC07307.jpg
    DSC07307.jpg
    219.6 KB
  • DSC07312.jpg
    DSC07312.jpg
    185.7 KB
  • DSC07316.jpg
    DSC07316.jpg
    219 KB
  • DSC07323.jpg
    DSC07323.jpg
    193 KB
  • DSC07324.jpg
    DSC07324.jpg
    148.7 KB
  • DSC07328.jpg
    DSC07328.jpg
    216.3 KB
  • DSC07330.jpg
    DSC07330.jpg
    190.8 KB
  • DSC07331.jpg
    DSC07331.jpg
    144 KB
  • DSC07335.jpg
    DSC07335.jpg
    177.1 KB
  • DSC07336.jpg
    DSC07336.jpg
    200.1 KB
custard":1qd75pe0 said:
AndyT":1qd75pe0 said:
I found myself wondering if the Romans would have needed to glue up narrow boards

Interesting point. When I visited Pompeii and Herculaneum I was surprised at the quality of the preserved joinery and furniture, I'd been expecting Barney Rubble style woodworking but it all looked pretty sophisticated. I can't recall seeing edge jointed boards specifically but, given that hide glue dates back to antiquity and would likely be cheaper than handmade nails, I can't see any reason why not.






I thought that the scorched finish was a modern fashion?!
 
Nice stuff.
Have you seen John Brown "Welsh Stick Chairs" ? He was the guru, died a bit back but his magazine articles are around still.
He didn't like turning - everything draw knifed, spoke shaved etc.

b_p1010109.jpg


His book is highly collectable. Hmm I've got a signed first edition somewhere!
 
Jacob":33ml84iw said:
Nice stuff.
Have you seen John Brown "Welsh Stick Chairs" ? He was the guru, died a bit back but his magazine articles are around still.
He didn't like turning - everything draw knifed, spoke shaved etc.

Thanks. Yeah, my design is basically stolen from that book. It's inspirational stuff. Maybe next time I will try shaving the tenons. Maybe I can figure out some kind of shaving horse arrangement for the low bench.
 
This is great. Very enjoyable and inspiring reading. Is there a reason you didn't go for four legs at each end like the bench in the blog? I prefer yours, incidentally.

And Custard, those Roman examples are pretty astonishing...!
 
El Barto":yaplh8hx said:
This is great. Very enjoyable and inspiring reading. Is there a reason you didn't go for four legs at each end like the bench in the blog? I prefer yours, incidentally.
Thank you very much :)
My bench is much shorter than Chris Schwarz's as my workshop doesn't have space for his 85" model! And I thought that 8 legs would probably cramp the space underneath.

However, after using it, I do find that my legs are hunting for something to push against when planing, so I might be tempted to add an extra pair of legs to one end.

It might look wierd, but there's only one way to find out!
 
Is there a tutorial online for Chris's workbench? I was going to make something similar (as a regular bench, not to work on) but seeing that I'd like to have a go at it.
 
El Barto":3ng0xgt1 said:
Is there a tutorial online for Chris's workbench? I was going to make something similar (as a regular bench, not to work on) but seeing that I'd like to have a go at it.

There's plenty on his blog at Popular Woodworking - start here and read back https://www.popularwoodworking.com/work ... orkbenches

But if that's not enough detail you can wait until his next book appears from Lost Art Press, some time next year, which will cover the Roman style workbench exhaustively.

[Btw, years ago when we needed a long bench for a children's party, I knocked up a couple out of softwood offcuts and some old kitchen worktop. They were fine for sitting on and for several years afterwards I used to use them for sawing and so on - they shared some of the virtues shown by ro in his build. But then I got a "proper" vice and adopted normal western woodworking habits. :( ]
 
AndyT":w1pbqseq said:
El Barto":w1pbqseq said:
Is there a tutorial online for Chris's workbench? I was going to make something similar (as a regular bench, not to work on) but seeing that I'd like to have a go at it.

There's plenty on his blog at Popular Woodworking - start here and read back https://www.popularwoodworking.com/work ... orkbenches

But if that's not enough detail you can wait until his next book appears from Lost Art Press, some time next year, which will cover the Roman style workbench exhaustively.

[Btw, years ago when we needed a long bench for a children's party, I knocked up a couple out of softwood offcuts and some old kitchen worktop. They were fine for sitting on and for several years afterwards I used to use them for sawing and so on - they shared some of the virtues shown by ro in his build. But then I got a "proper" vice and adopted normal western woodworking habits. :( ]

Tempted to get the Roman Workbenches book as a PDF, only a tenner or so.
 
Sorry, I thought he was still working on the book. You might need to update your £/$ exchange rate though.
 
I think he's working on the next version of the book with more detail. This one is very short, but still really useful.
 
Back
Top