Low back welsh chair build

[AndyT]

Ok, I'd not checked the actual rate - but there have been lots of recent news stories about likely dollar-pound parity - I reckon you should be ok if you get your order in quick!

 

[El Barto]

Ok, I'd not checked the actual rate - but there have been lots of recent news stories about likely dollar-pound parity - I reckon you should be ok if you get your order in quick!

It's still not quite a good enough rate to order the letterpressed book

 

[fiveeyes]

ro...next time on that sort of glue-up, try string, or some sort of cordage. To tension, insert a length of dowel, and twist. Should be able to get 2 or 3 'sticks' on each side..to balance the tension. YMMV

 

[DTR]

Watching with interest, both for the chair making and the work-holding!

I too am curious about the so-called Roman workbenches. In the summer I enjoyed working whilst sat on a sawhorse in the garden, it had potential....

 

[ro]

ro...next time on that sort of glue-up, try string, or some sort of cordage. To tension, insert a length of dowel, and twist. Should be able to get 2 or 3 'sticks' on each side..to balance the tension. YMMV

Genius! I'll definitely try that next time!

Right, back to the seat...

After removing the multitude of clamps, I pushed it against the planing stops at the end of the bench and traversed it with the cambered jack.
In the book, Chris recommends using your knees to hold the workpiece against the stops, but I could not hold it tightly enough to take deep cuts anywhere but right in the centre, so I banged a wedge and peg in using the holes I had made earlier.

I smoothed one side roughly with the low angle jack, but left the other side rough as it will not be on display.
Again, I have made a template for the seat out of MDF so I can easily work out how to get the best grain at the front. After all the clamping faff earlier with natural edges, I decided that I couldn't use them AND get the grain in the right place (there is a lovely but of curly grain which I wanted to place at the front of the seat). Oh well :roll:

OK, so now it's marked I cut it freehand on the bandsaw - can I just say how great the Tuffsaws 3/4 tpi premium blade in 1/2 inch is as a general purpose blade. even freehand, a couple of swipes from a plane leaves a finished cut and I use it on anything from 1/2 inch to 4 inch stock.

The blank!

OK, so next I need to refine the edges with a spokeshave. The wedge solution from earlier if perfect here.

Slightly more tricky was balancing it on the curved section and planing down to the line. In the end I textured one side of the wedge with the bandsaw to increase holding power and wedged a piece of wood fore and aft of the wedge:

This still wasn't perfect, if I took anything other than the lightest of cuts, it would lift out of the wedge.
Has anyone got any bright ideas for a better way to hold this? I'm going to need to do this again when I chamfer the edges.

The template has the leg positions and sightlines marked on it, so i simply transfer them over with a pencil

Taping a bevel gauge at the right angle (14 degrees for the front legs and 25 for the rear) along the sightlines gives me an angle to follow when drilling with an extra long 16mm auger in the hand brace. The extra length of the auger makes it much easier to follow the bevel gauge.

 

[ro]

Repeating this process with a Veritas Tapered Reamer with an 8mm hex extension attached (to aid with lining up with the bevel)

Quickly bang the legs into place and we have a stool!
Stand back and check that the legs look like they're at the right angles.

Close enough!

On to shaping the seat recess.
To clamp it in the middle of the bench, I bored a couple more holes (6 inches apart) and used the pegs and wedge to hold the seat. I then marked out a 2 inch area not to hollow for the spindles and a small area to go between the sitter's legs.

I could then attack the seat with an inshave. Starting at the back where i want the deepest hollow and moving forward. I found that it was better to put the wedge against the curved section and the straight bit against the pegs as this stopped the seat rotating. Having the seat held in the center of the bench like this meant that I could work from either side, across the grain. Again, this was a lot less tiring than standing at a high bench to do this. I'll be using this bench again for hollowing seats!

Here's the roughed out seat, it's hard to tell from the picture, but the hollow if about 1/2 inch at the back to about 1/4 at the front.

I need to sharpen my inshave and hone it to a razor edge to refine the shape.

 

[AndyT]

It's no help now, but next time I expect you will plane that edge before you round off the back on the bandsaw!

Seriously though, this is fascinating stuff. You can do so much with pegs and wedges.

 

[ro]

It's no help now, but next time I expect you will plane that edge before you round off the back on the bandsaw!

HAHAHA! You are SO right!

Hindsight is 20/20!

 

[custard]

This still wasn't perfect, if I took anything other than the lightest of cuts, it would lift out of the wedge.
Has anyone got any bright ideas for a better way to hold this? I'm going to need to do this again when I chamfer the edges.

Lay the seat flat on your bench (supported by a bit of stuff to raise it a 1/4" or 1/2" off the bench surface), then flip your plane on its side and plane the seat's edge that way. In other words tip the entire arrangement you currently have through 90 degrees.

If you read this post you'll get the general idea,

edge-jointing-thin-stock-t106666.html?hilit=edge%20jointing

This is more about using the technique for edge jointing thin boards, but it'll work equally well on thicker boards.

Incidentally, interesting article in today's paper about Roman woodwork...but they threw the benches away!

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... oomberg-hq

 

[nabs]

great stuff - are you finding yourself using it as a seat for any other tasks? I occasionally declutter my saw horse (which of course is generally upended and covered in tools!) and use it as a seat and it is very comfortable for some tasks (e.g chiseling out). Is this part of the attraction for a very low bench?

 

[El Barto]

Thanks for the update. making good progress! Is this chair another of Chris Schwarz's designs?

 

[xy mosian]

It is very good to watch the work methods of others. Especially when the 'other' is learning and explaining as work progresses.
I like the way the bench is being refined as needed rather than to an estimated future need.
I wonder if you will have some little trouble finding a surface for the bevel if drilling any arm, or back, supports at an angle?

Smashing viewing, good on you.
xy

 

[ro]

Lay the seat flat on your bench (supported by a bit of stuff to raise it a 1/4" or 1/2" off the bench surface), then flip your plane on its side and plane the seat's edge that way. In other words tip the entire arrangement you currently have through 90 degrees
....
Incidentally, interesting article in today's paper about Roman woodwork...but they threw the benches away!

AWESOME! Love that idea. I've also got an idea from Mike Abbott's Green Woodworking that involves turning the bench on it's side...

I hope to try both out tomorrow. This new present from the UPS fairy should help...

great stuff - are you finding yourself using it as a seat for any other tasks?

It's great for sitting on and drinking beer :wink:

Thanks for the update. making good progress! Is this chair another of Chris Schwarz's designs?

Well, the method for boring the leg holes is stolen from his Anarchists Design Book, the method for making the arm was stolen from Drew Langsner's Chairmaker's Workshop and the overall design was blatantly nicked from John Brown as mentioned earlier!

I wonder if you will have some little trouble finding a surface for the bevel if drilling any arm, or back, supports at an angle?

I have a little modern day trick up my sleeve for this. Although maybe using lasers is cheating a bit when using a roman workbench...

 

[El Barto]

Well, the method for boring the leg holes is stolen from his Anarchists Design Book, the method for making the arm was stolen from Drew Langsner's Chairmaker's Workshop and the overall design was blatantly nicked from John Brown as mentioned earlier!

Interesting. Got Lost Art's Chairmaker's Notebook in the post to me at the moment but might have to check that out too...

 

[xy mosian]

I wonder if you will have some little trouble finding a surface for the bevel if drilling any arm, or back, supports at an angle?

I have a little modern day trick up my sleeve for this. Although maybe using lasers is cheating a bit when using a roman workbench...

OO! That sounds fancy. I'm full of eager anticipation.
xy

 

[AndyT]

I just remembered that there's a Woodwright's Shop episode in which Chris Schwarz talks with Roy Underhill about his Roman workbench.

http://video.unctv.org/video/2365788037/

Sorry for continuing the thread drift but I thought it might be welcome.

 

[El Barto]

I just remembered that there's a Woodwright's Shop episode in which Chris Schwarz talks with Roy Underhill about his Roman workbench.

http://video.unctv.org/video/2365788037/

Sorry for continuing the thread drift but I thought it might be welcome.

Cool!

 

[ro]

...Sorry for continuing the thread drift but I thought it might be welcome.

Drift all you like, that's an awesome link. I'll give it a watch tonight.

Lay the seat flat on your bench (supported by a bit of stuff to raise it a 1/4" or 1/2" off the bench surface), then flip your plane on its side and plane the seat's edge that way. In other words tip the entire arrangement you currently have through 90 degrees.

So, I didn't need to do this as I had already planed the seat front, but it seemed like such a good idea I had to give it a go (and I wanted an excuse to try out my new holdfast)

Firstly, the holdfast works brilliantly! I can't believe I have never used one before. One quick tap on the top and it locked the seat against the planing stop. A tap on the back and it released. Just amazing!

Custard's method worked well too, I was able to take nice deep cuts (with the added bonus that I knew they were 100% square). However, I found it difficult to get much power behind the plane, the tote is at the wrong angle and I was having to grip the body of the plane. This meant that I didn't get a good grip.

I tried switching from the low angle jack to a standard Record #5 plane and I found that my fingers wrapped themselves around the frog and cap iron, almost like an ersatz handle.
This works much better, but does mean that I'll have to sharpen up a non cambered iron for the #5.

I'm definitely using this method again for edge jointing boards on the low bench.

Next, while flicking through Mike Abbott's book "Green Woodwork" he mentions clamping a seat to the face of his bench and then pushing the bench over on it's side.
Again, I had to try this method

I had to perch on the thin edge of the bench, but it works well. It allowed me to get more power behind the stroke than Custard's method but was more of a pain in the bum (literally :lol: ) to set up.

I think both these methods have their uses and I'm sure I'll be using both again in the future.

Anyway, enough procrastinating. I'm off to sharpen my inshave.

 

[Racers]

Have you tried kneeling sideways on the bench with the seat bottom clamped between your legs, it it is sticking out the barest amount it shouldn't try and turn.

Pete

 

[ro]

Have you tried kneeling sideways on the bench with the seat bottom clamped between your legs, it it is sticking out the barest amount it shouldn't try and turn.

Nice idea! I'll give that a go when I chamfer the sides of the seat.

So, after getting the inshave to razor sharpness, I was still getting tearout in the sycamore

(you can see I've changed to a double wedge for extra holding power, and a bit of leather between the peg and wedge stops it moving at all)

I needed something slightly more controlled than the inshave, so I decided to make a quick excursion into plane making territory. I have always fancied trying to make a plane, and after reading Paul Sellers' series on making a curve-soled plane I thought I'd give it a go.

I started with a spare blade from my block plane and a lump of ash left over from the legs.

Cut to size on the bandsaw

I then cut and planed the bed and marked the bed line for one side of the wedge mortise on the side wall. I'm finding myself using the holdfast more and more for small clamping operations.

Cut out a wedge and planed it smooth. The plane kept hitting the bench whenI was planing the angle, so I just put it on an offcut and raised the plane stop to meet it.

Then placed the wedge and blade against the bed and marked out the other side of the wedge mortise on the side wall.

I tried to deepen the scribed lines with a chisel by pushing it against the planing stop, but it kept moving and I couldn't keep it under control

After stopping for a cuppa, I came up with the idea of putting a notched stick on the planing stops

This worked! in fact, I was going to saw the lines down and then use a chisel to remove the waste, but it was so easy to lean into the chisel that I just knifed the lines deeper and chiselled to them a couple of times and all the waste popped out.
I just had to flatten the bottom with a chisel

Glued and clamped up (I cheated and used clamps instead of trying to figure out how to use pegs and wedges!)