Lithium-ion Drill/Driver or Combi Hammer?

[Mike.C]

I need to buy a new drill and i have been looking at some of the Lithium-ion ones. Do any of you own any tools that run on this type of battery?

I have read that they do not suffer from memory effect and that many of them have protection against overcharging and overheating.

The one that has caught my eye is the Makita BHP451SFE http://www.ps-tools.com/catalog/product ... cts_id/790 have any of you come across this model?

If these batteries are as good as they say, with 2x18volt 3Ah and 45 minute charger do you think that it is good value?

Can anyone recommend a combi drill?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Colin C]

I have not use the drill myself but did see a review of it in good woodwrking and it got 5 out of 5.
As they are new I am not sure how many people have used them.
Good luck if you get one as I have the 18volt MXT and :tool: is all I will say

 

[Mike.C]

Where I said "Can anyone recommend a combination drill", it does not have to be a Makita, or even run on Lithium-ion.

I just want a drill that can cope with timber over 40mm thick, without having a stroke like my present one does, and has a battery that does not run out of steam after 40 or 50 screws. It must fully charge in 1 hour, or better still less than an hour.

But most of all i want a drill, where if i only use 50% of its last charge i can place it in the charger and recharge again without any problems.
One of the main problems i have is if i do not use the drill for any length of time, it will loose it's charge and then when i recharge it, it is never the same again. Hence the reason for wanting a battery that i can trickle charge.

Any advice would be great. Thanks Colin.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Colin C]

What is the drill you are using at the moment?
As I said I have the 18 volt MXT from Makita and I am very happy with it ( it will drill a 65 mm hole ) and has the most power for its class.
It all so has 3 speeds ( great for when you are drilling holes )
I would try a shop that has them in so you can try them and also have a look at the Bosch drills to as a friend of mine has one ( I have used that to and had no complants )

 

[Mike.C]

doesn't anyone else use either a drill/driver or combi hammer drill?
If so can you recommend it?

Colin wrote:

What is the drill you are using at the moment?

It's a Ryobi CDI 1200 12v, and it's a load of rubbish.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Colin C]

Then try the 14 or 18 volt Makita in the MXT range, you will be very happy . If you have the extra money I would look at the Lithium-ion ones you where looking at. I hope this helps

 

[Mike.C]

Colin wrote:

Then try the 14 or 18 volt Makita in the MTX range, you will be very happy :lol: If you have the extramoney I woul;d look at the Lithium-ion ones you were looking at. I hope this helps.

I am certainly very, very tempted to go for the Makita BHP451SFE combi, but before i make up my mind i just wanted to get some other members views.

Cheers

Mike

 

[LyNx]

what are you going to be using it for, apart from drilling 40mm timber?

Andy

 

[Mike.C]

Lynx wrote:

what are you going to be using it for, apart from drilling 40mm timber?

The reference to 40mm timber came about after my present cordless drill struggled to go though a piece oak, and it was not meant as an indication to what i will be using the drill for, although it is almost certain that i will drill a 40mm piece of oak at sometime in the future.

As to what i will be using the drill for, i think "Most Things" is a safe bet. From concrete to timber. Sorry that i can not be more certain, its just that when i think about it, i will use it for anything that needs doing.

Cheers

Mike.

 

[Colin C]

Mick.C , you are like me as I now use my cordless drill for all things, unless it a very big hole or some thing very hard like some walls ( then out comes the Bosch 24 volt )

 

[LyNx]

For any really large holes or in concrete, i use a mains powered drill. And this rarely gets used.

For 99% all other jobs the Makita 6280 has to be the best bet for me. £99 for 3no. 14.4v batteries, 30 minute charger and £38 for extra drill bodies. I know the MXT range will blow holes over the 6280 but will you ever need to extra specification.

Andy

 

[Colin C]

With the MXT range you can go for the drill driver and still use it for drilling holes in walls ( with the right drills or sharpen your ones ) plus they are cheap for the same power .
Try http://www.itslondon.co.uk/p2_CPT_Cordl ... rdless.htm
They come with 3 batteries and you can get the bodys from there too.

 

[LyNx]

how i see it, it's double the price but you don't get twice the drill :?

Can't see the point in spending alot of money for somthing that drills holes but if your not worried about the price, then yes nice drills.


Andy

 

[Colin C]

how i see it, it's double the price but you don't get twice the drill :?

Can't see the point in spending alot of money for somthing that drills holes but if your not worried about the price, then yes nice drills.


Andy

It does depend on what and how you use your drill.
I use my drill onsite alot and it makes the difference with the extra power and if you see the spec on the two drill you do get more than twice the drill :? .
This is the spec for the 12 volt MXT

1 Hour Charger
13mm Keyless Chuck
Variable Speed
Reverse Action
3 Speed Gearbox
65Nm Max Torque
16 Position Torque Settings
Drilling Capacity 45mm (Wood)
Drilling Capacity 13mm (Metal)
No Load Speed 0-300/0-600/0-1700rpm
Weight 2.2kg
Carry Case
It get better up the range

 

[Mike.C]

Andy wrote:

How i see it, it's double the price but you don't get twice the drill :?

Can't see the point in spending alot of money for something that drills holes but if your not worried about the price, then yes nice drills.

Yes, it is a lot more expensive then other drills, but then it is a lot more of drill.
These spec's are for the makita BHP451SFE 18V Litium-ion combi drill.

Remember that this is a combination drill and not just a drill/driver.

£299.00 (including VAT)

2 X 3.0AH Lithium-ion batteries
80 Nm of Torque
Weighs less than 2.2kg
45 minute charger
LTX Lithium-ion battery provides longer run time
Self-discharge (for use any time)
Metal 13mm chuck
Capacity. Steel 13mm
Wood 65mm
Masonry 16mm
Variable speed on trigger
3 speed gearbox
Two built-in LED lights for illuminating work.
No load RPM:

Low 0-300
Mid 0-600
high0-1,700

Blows/Min (BPM)

0-4,500
0-9,000
0-25,500

Battery and charger communicate though out the charging process using a built in chip in the battery and CPU in the charger.

45-minute charger has a built-in fan to cool the battery which extends its life.

3 speed design produces 25% faster working speed, which makes it more and more efficiency.

Charger uses "Active 3 Control" for current, thermal, and voltage control.

This drill is only 251mm in lenght, which will allow it to fit in tight spaces.

Andy, the real problem I find with Ni Cad and Ni MH is with the charging, eg memory effect etc,etc.
But with the Lithium-ion, you have no such problems. After you have finished with it, whether you have used 90% of the charge or just 20% you can sit it in the charger and it will fully charge it again, with no memory problems. In fact you can leave the battery in the charger and it will keep it 100% charged for a day, week , or year.
IMHO, this in itself makes a drill (any manufacturer) a big premium.

As for your line:

Andy wrote:

Can't see the point in spending a lot of money for something that drills holes, but if your not worried about the price, then yes nice drills.

I am not the only one who spends big bucks for a tool that drills holes, or in your case a saw that just cuts boards up.
Remember your little FESSTOOL TS55 saw? That too costs at least 50% more than another saw, which can cut lines equally as good.

Don't get me wrong I know that its a first class bit of equipment, because my dad has one. I was does showing you that we all at one time or another go over the top to get the best tool possible.

Anyway i am still waiting for some recommendations.

Cheers

Mike

 

[LyNx]

You can't really comment on my purchasing, just as i can't comment on yours, until you understand the persons background.

I needed to cut up nearly 30 sheets of 18MDF, 5 sheets of 30MDF the other week (at home and on my own) and i have a client that needs wardrobes cut up on site this weekend too, so the saw has already paid for itself. No table saw in my mind will do that given the shop space i have, and i had a budget of £350 for a saw, so the festool was the right choice. Anything out of it's league will go on our Alterdorf F45 or the Gabbiani Galaxy 115.

If i look onto the shop floor, i don't see any MTX drills, only 6270, 6280 etc. Fair enough, the bigger makita can drill a bigger hole, drill into concrete but how many times will you 'actually need' these features over a cheaper drill. Problems with battery memory, i've only know this from this forum. Either we all have been lucky or we don't really notice, but and this still doesn't warrant spending 3 times the price.

Bottom line, if it's for professional use and you will be drilling 65mm holes in wood, 13mm steel etc then yes, go for it, good purchase.

If it's for a hobby, DIY use then i think 'personally' your wasting some money.

Anyway i am still waiting for some recommendations.

Sorry mate, can't help you here. I have the 6280 and this is more than prefect for what I need it for.

But if i was spending the money, i would opt for the hammer option as this is a usefull feature. PLus you can still use it as a drill/driver

Andy

 

[Sonic]

As regards battery choice, Li Ion batteries have 3 main advantages:
no "memory" effect, where effective capacity is lost through repeated partial charging.
density, they have higher capacity per weight/volume.
lower self discharge, after 1 month there is still in excess of 90% charge.
These characteristics are useful in different ways for different applications (mobile phones & laptops for example), but the way power tools are generally used, when one battery is totally exhausted, it is swapped for a charged one, and the dead one put on charge. This way there is never partial charging, and you always have a charged battery to hand (as long as you have at least 2 batteries). Which leaves the weight/size advantage, which I suppose may be an issue for a very powerful tool, but not for an average drill/driver. I suppose for a tool used once in a blue moon, it could be useful to have Li Ion, but otherwise, at the moment the price being asked IMHO is excessive.

Just my twopennorth !

Colin

 

[Mike.C]

Lynx wrote:

You can't really comment on my purchasing, just as i can't comment on yours, until you understand the persons background.

"But you did"

HERE

Lynx wrote:

Can't see the point in spending a lot of money for something that drills holes but if your not worried about the price, then yes nice drills.

As far as i can see the price is your only objection.

I wrote:

Anyway I am still waiting for some reommendations.

Lynx wrote:

Sorry mate, can't help you here.

But you are unable to give me an alternative.

Sonic wrote:

As regards battery choice, Li Ion batteries have 3 main advantages:
no "memory" effect, where effective capacity is lost through repeated partial charging.
density, they have higher capacity per weight/volume.
lower self discharge, after 1 month there is still in excess of 90% charge.
These characteristics are useful in different ways for different applications (mobile phones & laptops for example), but the way power tools are generally used, when one battery is totally exhausted, it is swapped for a charged one, and the dead one put on charge. This way there is never partial charging, and you always have a charged battery to hand (as long as you have at least 2 batteries). Which leaves the weight/size advantage, which I suppose may be an issue for a very powerful tool, but not for an average drill/driver. I suppose for a tool used once in a blue moon, it could be useful to have Li Ion, but otherwise, at the moment the price being asked IMHO is excessive.

I disagree, in this household the power tools are very rarely totally exhausted, nearly maybe, but not totally exhausted. Think about it, you are putting a few screws in and the battery gets to a point where although it is still running it is not powerful enough to turn the screw all the way home. If you then recharge it from this point (partial charge), in the end you are going to get the memory effect.


Your comment about weight/size being an advantage on a more powerful tool comes into play because the tool i am taking about is there most powerful one in their LTX range eg the Makita BHP451SFE. It is a combination drill and not only a drill/driver.

As no one could make a recommendation i went ahead and ordered the BHP451SFE today.

I find it strange that not one member (except Colin who owns the MTX) could recommend one power tool that must be in 99% of workshops.

Mike

 

[LyNx]

what are you going on about?????

I have not commented on your spending, i never have. The quote was "about spending money on a drill", you don't own the drill so i can't comment about your past spending!!!

I don't think your taking no board any of the comments, as you want the MTX and it will be nice in your shop . Just tell us in 6 months time if it was worth the extra £200.

Andy

 

[Mike.C]

Lynx wrote:

I don't think your taking on board any of the comments, as you want the MTX and it will be nice in your shop. Just tell us in 6 months if it was worth the extra £200

I did take on board the comments, but i felt like i was banging my head off a wall, because i (and in fact Colin) gave the spec's of both the MTX and LTX drills, and time and time again i said that i was aware of the cost, but what i needed was members to recommend other combination drills that ITHO were better value for money But as you have just shown again, the only replies i received were to tell me that the drill was to expensive.

The trouble is as i said at the begining i needed a drill, and as no one could point me in the direction of a better drill, i placed my order for the LTX.

Cheers

Mike