Kees...show me your planes!!
- Thread starter D_W
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Corneel
Established Member
Of course! Your video series has been a major trigger to finally get of my butt and make the planes I always wanted to make. It just took me at least a year to get started.
The last plane I made, a tryplane, 21" long (the block of wood wasn't any longer).
The whole set,
A jointer, 27".
Tryplane, 21"
Foreplane 16"
Jackplane 14"
Smoother 7"
And a routerplane.
And a picture of the routerplane, kind of a bonus I made last Saterday.
The last plane I made, a tryplane, 21" long (the block of wood wasn't any longer).
The whole set,
A jointer, 27".
Tryplane, 21"
Foreplane 16"
Jackplane 14"
Smoother 7"
And a routerplane.
And a picture of the routerplane, kind of a bonus I made last Saterday.
G S Haydon
Established Member
- Joined
- 24 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 1,667
- Reaction score
- 222
Well! Just a smashing job on those Kees. Just curious did you do the wear vertical or angled back?
Corneel
Established Member
The wear in most planes is now somewhere between 80 and 85 degrees. Almost vertical, but not quite!
Looks great, Kees! I hoped five people would see my videos and make planes. I know graham has been cooking some planes, too, but don't know where that went. But that makes two!
I am still making them here and there, but not more than about one a month. I learned a lesson about the wear in experimenting with it (and only recently), and that is that the wear itself is dependent on the profile of the cap iron more than anything else. Ward and Mathieson have gradually sloped cap irons that are intended to stay out of the way of the wear, and the wear can be made very steep. I don't know what it is on my last plane, but it's below 80 by several degrees.
Most of the cap irons I have don't meet that standard, but the ones that do are very easy feeders with a small mouth as long as someone doesn't get stupid and make a big steep initial bevel.
Have you got any favorites of the bunch?
I am still making them here and there, but not more than about one a month. I learned a lesson about the wear in experimenting with it (and only recently), and that is that the wear itself is dependent on the profile of the cap iron more than anything else. Ward and Mathieson have gradually sloped cap irons that are intended to stay out of the way of the wear, and the wear can be made very steep. I don't know what it is on my last plane, but it's below 80 by several degrees.
Most of the cap irons I have don't meet that standard, but the ones that do are very easy feeders with a small mouth as long as someone doesn't get stupid and make a big steep initial bevel.
Have you got any favorites of the bunch?
Corneel
Established Member
Hard to say yet what my favourite is. I used the smoothing plane quite a bit and like it. Even better then my old wooden smoother. I also like the foreplane. The jack is still a bit too agressive for my tatste but I haven't used it much crossgrain yet.
I have a large project looming up when I am ready with all the house maintenance work. So I will see how they perform in real life.
I have a large project looming up when I am ready with all the house maintenance work. So I will see how they perform in real life.
Tony Zaffuto
Established Member
Very nice job! Saw them over on SMC, and tis a shame David does not visit over there anymore.
Tony Zaffuto":37z706r8 said:
Tony, at some point you can just visit my dumpy shop down here in Pittsburgh! You're always driving past or within a couple of minutes of it, anyway. Not much in it other than a mess, and whatever planes I haven't yet given away, though.
I don't have the temperament for SMC any longer - too much of a time sink to talk about the same things over and over.
Corneel
Established Member
There is Oskar Sedel who just posted a 20" tryplane made from pear wood on SMC. He sais that he watched your videos with interest too.
Corneel":1xu5khws said:
That's close enough to 5 for me!
(actually, I should've waited until about now to make the videos, as I was more concerned about the proper aspects of the plane being disclosed - the design of the wear and abutments, the fit of the wedge, etc. But after another dozen or so more planes, there is much less floating now and no more marking mistakes - and cleaner looking eyes).
It sounds arrogant for me to say that I wanted to make sure that accurate information got out there and rushed to make the videos to do it, but there was a flurry of blog posts about that time where folks who hadn't made any planes were going to put up comprehensive tutorials from their trial and error standpoint - that doesn't to people any favors.
(you'd be surprised how many people send me private messages telling me that I should work on editing and camera work and clean up my shop. 100% of the time, those are people who are looking for an entertainment video, and they have no interest in building planes. It would take 10 times as long to make nice videos but the content wouldn't be any different. They'd just have close up woodworking porn shots of mortising, etc - something that I do in half the time as it took when I made the videos).
(I didn't miss the fact that you put offset handles on those planes, either. That effectively makes them a two hand plane instead of one, and you can really crank - which you can do with a mid-mounted handle, but the offset handle really forces it and it's a good thing to learn).
G S Haydon
Established Member
- Joined
- 24 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 1,667
- Reaction score
- 222
David, my plane is still in limbo. It's half done and it bugs me it's not as good as I wanted. I want to try again and wish I'd roughed one out in a bit of pine first. I don't have Kees good fortune is sourcing beech!
toitoi
Established Member
Video Series???? Where would I find those? I am very much interested in this style of plane making. I found a piece of Beech about 4"x4"x24" that I thought I might be able to turn into something plane shaped.
John
John
Look up "making a double iron beech plane" on youtube.
be forewarned that the videos are just literally recordings of the process with a cellphone from a peripheral view, and there is absolutely no editing at all. They are a rough watch, but there is enough information in them to lay out and build a plane.
be forewarned that the videos are just literally recordings of the process with a cellphone from a peripheral view, and there is absolutely no editing at all. They are a rough watch, but there is enough information in them to lay out and build a plane.
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
A fine-looking set of planes, Kees. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts once you've had a chance to use them in anger on a couple of major projects.
I rather enjoy using the 'old-woman's tooth' - though I find mine (an Ebay special) a wee bit top heavy on account of all that plough iron sticking up. I also like the idea of having a choice of eight sizes; though so far, I've only needed one wide one! The finish it produces isn't brilliant, but given that most of it's jobs are cleaning out housings to depth so that something else can go in the groove, then rather as with ploughed grooves, the finish doesn't really matter much. I'm still not sure that I prefer it over the Record, though.
I rather enjoy using the 'old-woman's tooth' - though I find mine (an Ebay special) a wee bit top heavy on account of all that plough iron sticking up. I also like the idea of having a choice of eight sizes; though so far, I've only needed one wide one! The finish it produces isn't brilliant, but given that most of it's jobs are cleaning out housings to depth so that something else can go in the groove, then rather as with ploughed grooves, the finish doesn't really matter much. I'm still not sure that I prefer it over the Record, though.
Corneel
Established Member
Once or twice I had a situation where I had to work against the grain with a routerplane and it would show. In such a case the wooden ones with the high bedding angle are a solution.
I haven't yet figured out how to reduce the cutting depth with this type of routerplane. Increasing is easy of course with light taps on the iron. But malleting on top of the body doesn't seem to do anything to change the setting. To release the wedge I tap the iron all the way down.
I haven't yet figured out how to reduce the cutting depth with this type of routerplane. Increasing is easy of course with light taps on the iron. But malleting on top of the body doesn't seem to do anything to change the setting. To release the wedge I tap the iron all the way down.
Tony Zaffuto
Established Member
D_W":1skp0whb said:
Remember your avatar photo on SMC? That will be me visiting! Prepare thyself (just joking).
Anyhow, I will visit sometime over the next months-after hockey concludes! I'll be in town often for the Pirates, but that's not near as good as the Penguins.
I'm toying with is making up some plane irons (in my toolmaker's spare time!). Probably will be O1 and maybe W1, so if you guys have size suggestions, let me know.
Boy do I ever on the suggestions for iron size (if they're for woodies). If they could be slotted and tapered, that would be lovely (I think that must be a tall order, the tapering). O1 would be very practical and if right on the dot at 59 or 60 hardness, it would make for a lovely iron to go with the washitas.
I had to dig deep in the memory bank about the avatar for a second....that was Harley Race.....I wish I was a tenth as tough as Harley!
I had to dig deep in the memory bank about the avatar for a second....that was Harley Race.....I wish I was a tenth as tough as Harley!
Tony Zaffuto
Established Member
Been thinking of how to taper-may have to take a peek at what I have laying around to see how much of a taper is there. Slotting is easy-peasy, and tapering may be also to my tool maker.
I probably have about fifty double iron pairs in my basement box, and they are all over the place in taper, and to some extent in length (but the length doesn't vary too much for a given width because it would've been tied to plane size and wedge length...generally only about a half inch of variation in total length, I guess, for a given width.
I have some irons that barely have taper (but they're not parallel like an infill) and others that are half as thick at the top as they are at the cutting end.
I know what size the try plane irons are off the top of my head because I've made so many of them.
- 2 1/2 inches wide
- 8 inches long
- most are about 3/16ths thick at the business end, and the heavily tapered irons are only about 3/32nds thick at the top of the iron. The later sheffield all-steel irons are marginally thinner, and some have less taper, but others have steep taper. No consistency from one maker to the next. The later irons feel like oil hardening steel on the washita. A wetter and slicker/less dry feeling than the older water hardening steel.
Narrower irons are usually less thick.
The two most common sizes I have seen are 2 1/8" and 2 1/2" (I can't recall the length of the 2 1/8" irons, but it's probably 7 1/2 inches at the most.)
It's getting harder to fine clean unused 2 1/2" wide irons with a good clean (non-pitted) cap...partly because I've bought all of the ones I've found. the cap can be made by hand without blacksmith or machine magic, but the iron, not so much.
(and I know nothing about machines...that's for sure. I can just imagine the work holding problem that a tapered iron might cause. When I told Larry I had come up with a block to hold a molding plane iron to taper it on a belt sander, he said the minimum that you could spend had have a decent taper setup is $3,000. The belt sander tapered irons work fine, but I wouldn't want to put them in a $450 pair of hollows and rounds - someone might complain!! moulding planes can be done on a belt sander only because there's so little to grind, and most of it is coming off of the narrow tang).
Be interested in finding out what your maker thinks. It'd almost have to be a labor of love - most people balk at the NOS iron and cap sets for $40, which stuns me. They would be costly to make these days.
I have some irons that barely have taper (but they're not parallel like an infill) and others that are half as thick at the top as they are at the cutting end.
I know what size the try plane irons are off the top of my head because I've made so many of them.
- 2 1/2 inches wide
- 8 inches long
- most are about 3/16ths thick at the business end, and the heavily tapered irons are only about 3/32nds thick at the top of the iron. The later sheffield all-steel irons are marginally thinner, and some have less taper, but others have steep taper. No consistency from one maker to the next. The later irons feel like oil hardening steel on the washita. A wetter and slicker/less dry feeling than the older water hardening steel.
Narrower irons are usually less thick.
The two most common sizes I have seen are 2 1/8" and 2 1/2" (I can't recall the length of the 2 1/8" irons, but it's probably 7 1/2 inches at the most.)
It's getting harder to fine clean unused 2 1/2" wide irons with a good clean (non-pitted) cap...partly because I've bought all of the ones I've found. the cap can be made by hand without blacksmith or machine magic, but the iron, not so much.
(and I know nothing about machines...that's for sure. I can just imagine the work holding problem that a tapered iron might cause. When I told Larry I had come up with a block to hold a molding plane iron to taper it on a belt sander, he said the minimum that you could spend had have a decent taper setup is $3,000. The belt sander tapered irons work fine, but I wouldn't want to put them in a $450 pair of hollows and rounds - someone might complain!! moulding planes can be done on a belt sander only because there's so little to grind, and most of it is coming off of the narrow tang).
Be interested in finding out what your maker thinks. It'd almost have to be a labor of love - most people balk at the NOS iron and cap sets for $40, which stuns me. They would be costly to make these days.
