If I run a 100V japanese tool on 120V US electricity

[D_W]

What will happen?

I've admired the wide makita hand planers for a while - they're kind of more like hand tools in proportion and not just short door trimming types.

The only problem? It's not something that I'll use often, so the US cost for something like the 170mm planer (1806b) that's common in japan doesn't make much hobbyist sense. It's about $800.

However, these things are sold used and working from japan routinely for $200-$250 including shipping. They would work in a US outlet - which is surprising - but are 100V and will work with 60 cycle electricity since part of japan is on that. the voltage is the only difference. I doubt there are any digital PCB type things in them, but they're probably also one speed.

Will running a 100V old school planer on 120V electricity cause any problems other than increased speed?

A chinese variac is also a possibility - I have one already for guitar amps, but it's only 500va and wouldn't handle one of these planers.

 

[D_W]

Just looked up the variacs in larger size - they're only about $60 for one that will handle 2 kva.

 

[Spectric]

If the Ac frequency is the same then you will not see a change in speed, the extra voltage will increase the current and put extra load on the motor windings but 20 volt !

 

[D_W]

So, correct to say that the motor may be able to do more work than it was intended to do at 120v and that could potentially cause problems? Sort of like putting extra gas and oxygen in a car motor with a turbocharger, and then guessing at what point it will create more heat and load than the motor and car can handle?

Unless there's something I don't know about a variac, as in if the motor could be set for 1200watts but periodically draw more than 2000 (start, under load), the cost of operating at 100v isn't very much ($60) and I could just dump my smaller variac on ebay and use the bigger in the shop and on guitar amps.

 

[D_W]

If anyone has a thought about this reasonably on base but doesn't want to make a prediction - I'm not taking names and coming back later and saying "you told me this would be OK!!!".

so don't worry about that. If you say something not accurate and someone else calls you clueless, I can't prevent that, though!

 

[Jameshow]

I doubt it there must be a tolerance?
I can ask my national grid guy if you like!

 

[John Brown]

Is it a brushed motor, or induction? Regardless, most motors take 3 or 4 times the rated current when starting, but if it's brushed, then maybe look at a soft start module.
It may also be the case that a Variac will saturate if something, and there will be no problem with initial inrush.
My guess is that it'll be fine on 20% over voltage.

 

[--Tom--]

It’ll likely be designed for +\- 10% anything above that could impact the circuit boards that won’t have been designed for the higher voltage.

If I was a tool maker though I’d make it able to run on US and Japanese voltages to simplify manufacture - design for 110 and +/- 10% covers both regions

 

[John Brown]

Run it via a 100 metre extension lead...

 

[raffo]

I asked around, at 120V you run the risk of overloading the motor. A properly sized Variac (>1.5 KVA) or a step-down transformer would be recommended.

 

[D_W]

I doubt it there must be a tolerance?
I can ask my national grid guy if you like!

I could also follow my nose for experimenting with things and just put the wood to one and see what happens.

Somewhere around 6 or 7 years ago, i stopped babying power tools - including my poor seldom used but completely mistreated dewalt thickness planer. Which followed a rubbish design delta planer that failed despite being treated well and used little.

I literally haven't broken anything since then - the theory is different than my stingy parents who always babied everything (and traded copious amounts of personal time) under the idea that they needed to avoid anything that cost money. "make it last" equated to things like running a chainsaw below full throttle, and the same with the mowers, etc.

I think it's more likely that a lot of machines will either not fail or have something inconsequential fail if they're ridden hard.

Except this may be outside of something that was designed for since it's not just pushing the tool hard.

 

[D_W]

Is it a brushed motor

brushed. I see brushes for them for sale.

 

[D_W]

I asked around, at 120V you run the risk of overloading the motor. A properly sized Variac (>1.5 KVA) or a step-down transformer would be recommended.

That's probably the smart move. Not that much of an inconvenience , just a swap of variacs.

 

[johna.clements]

Run it via a 100 metre extension lead...

Can you get 100m extension leads in the US?

That would certainly reduce the power.

 

[John Brown]

100 yard then..

It was not a serious suggestion.

 

[bushwhaker]

The rated power of the stabilizer must be 30% higher than the power of the consumer with an active load (heaters, electric ovens, furnaces, stoves, etc.). This is necessary due to the high starting current of the loads. When the load is turned on and during repeated short-term modes, the load for a short period significantly exceeds the nominal parameters indicated in the technical characteristics of the load. This necessitates the use of a stabilizer with a certain power reserve, especially in locations where the input voltage of the stabilizer is, in most cases, close to the lower limit of the input voltage range.

When a voltage stabilizer is used to supply an inductive load, the selected stabilizer must have 3 to 5 times the output power of the load, e.g. luminescent and fluorescent lighting, electric motors, pumps, air conditioners, refrigerators and freezers, etc.

When a voltage stabilizer is used to supply a capacitive load, the selected stabilizer must have 5 to 10 times the output power of the load, е.g. pulse chargers, LED drivers, switching power supplies, etc.

 

[pgrbff]

I have always read on the Japanese tools, woodworking techniques and interests Facebook page that Japanese tools are either 50 or 60 zHz and both work fine in the US.

 

[clogs]

D_W
aren't planers supposed to be simple.....?
what about it,
personally it's a bit late for me, well sorted P/T wise but I go for it and worry later.....Just what could go wrong.....hahaha....
u'd get most of ur money back as break or repair machine....
If only I had known about Japan sooner tool wise....? just starting to look there at the mo....
the only machine I have with any electronics is a MIG welder....
I avoid electronics like the plague......to many weird gizzmos to go wrong......!!!!!!

 

[ChaiLatte]

If you could find the exploded diagram and parts list for both models, there is a good chance that the only difference is the stator (and maybe the rotor). Price up the minimum number of parts you'd need to swap to make it into a US model.

 

[D_W]

I have always read on the Japanese tools, woodworking techniques and interests Facebook page that Japanese tools are either 50 or 60 zHz and both work fine in the US.

They are. One end of the country uses 50 and the other uses 60, so a lot of the tools are marked "50-60hz" rather than making two types.

The only difference is japan uses 100V. Why that is, I don't know. The US went through voltage changes over time, though I don't know exactly what and when.

Everything was titled "110" when I was a kid, and a lot of people still call the single hot connection here "110", though it's 120 according to my kill-a-watt. Same for the two hot wiring "220". I haven't checked that, but unless something funny is going on with the second leg, it's 240.

Understanding from the first comment about speed being determined by cycle ( I probably should've been able to reason through that without knowing it ) and voltage providing more power through the windings and other parts of the planer, it sounds more like a matter of no load, it may not be a problem, but using the extra voltage to push the tool past where it would've stalled previously may cause heat problems.

I figured I'd go to japan's yahoo since there are so many on ebay for $250-$260 (the 1805s and 1806s). That usually means there are flippers involved who just buy off of yahoo in japan and use a direct ship option from a proxy and collect a margin. It also means that something listed for $250-$260 is probably selling for less than half of that in country.

And that's true, so sooner or later, I'll get one and take my chances with the proxy shipper doing something stupid (like shutting ground shipping). If ground shipping is an option, then after paying for protective packaging, the total price ends up being around $140.