If I run a 100V japanese tool on 120V US electricity

[D_W]

much appreciate the talk-through along the way. it ultimately helped me make the decision that it's safe to feed this thing a hot lunch for a little bit, but that ultimately, I also want to feed it a lunch that's a little less hot in the longer term.

I have to make something for the boy - a cabinet that will be an add on to a loft bed that I built him, and will consider measuring a few things with the planer when I do it instead of doing all of the woodwork entirely by hand. I'm curious to find out how much total wattage is drawn peak and continuous.

If it starts drawing 1500-1600 watts in the cut when the placard says 1150VA more or less, that will speed up locating a proper dimmer or maybe more.

there are purpose-made devices here on amazon just to transform 120-100 and they're marketed to be used with appliances imported or brought from japan, but they're not particularly inexpensive for what they are.

 

[John Brown]

much appreciate the talk-through along the way. it ultimately helped me make the decision that it's safe to feed this thing a hot lunch for a little bit, but that ultimately, I also want to feed it a lunch that's a little less hot in the longer term.

I have to make something for the boy - a cabinet that will be an add on to a loft bed that I built him, and will consider measuring a few things with the planer when I do it instead of doing all of the woodwork entirely by hand. I'm curious to find out how much total wattage is drawn peak and continuous.

If it starts drawing 1500-1600 watts in the cut when the placard says 1150VA more or less, that will speed up locating a proper dimmer or maybe more.

there are purpose-made devices here on amazon just to transform 120-100 and they're marketed to be used with appliances imported or brought from japan, but they're not particularly inexpensive for what they are.

Decades ago, I was part owner of a company that manufactured step down transformers, mainly for expat Americans. I think the largest we made was 3kW, as that's around the maximum power a UK mains socket can deliver. We still have a couple, one gets used to run my wife's US KitchenAid mixer, I'm not sure where the other is. Anyway, looking around on the web, they seem to be very much a thing of the past. You can get the big site transformers, and various electronic gadgets for small devices, but I guess switch mode supplies that cope with anything from 80V to 300V(or whatever) have largely made them irelevant. That and American expats finally catching on that it's way cheaper to buy a local hair dryer than run the US one on a transformer. I'd be interested to see what sort of purpose-made device you're talking about that'll cope with over a kW continuous/unknown peak.

 

[Sideways]

The thing that makes modern power electronics the marvel that they are is the concept of switching quickly between full on and full off, never lingering in between. In the ON or OFF states, they are acting as switches not variable resistors and they don't dissipate much power themselves. That's how you can have a tiny variable speed trigger on a 1200Watt SDS drill, a 7kW VFD the size of a big shoebox or control hundreds of horsepower electric motors in your EV.

A solid state relay half the size of a pack of cigarettes will switch 40Amps. That's 10kW at UK mains voltage. It's cheaper to build complex electronics than buy copper for big transformers these days

 

[D_W]

Decades ago, I was part owner of a company that manufactured step down transformers, mainly for expat Americans. I think the largest we made was 3kW, as that's around the maximum power a UK mains socket can deliver. We still have a couple, one gets used to run my wife's US KitchenAid mixer, I'm not sure where the other is. Anyway, looking around on the web, they seem to be very much a thing of the past. You can get the big site transformers, and various electronic gadgets for small devices, but I guess switch mode supplies that cope with anything from 80V to 300V(or whatever) have largely made them irelevant. That and American expats finally catching on that it's way cheaper to buy a local hair dryer than run the US one on a transformer. I'd be interested to see what sort of purpose-made device you're talking about that'll cope with over a kW continuous/unknown peak.

they're on amazon here, which means amazon will feed you something else if I post the link. I'll fish out a name. the display of the gadgets shows what looks like a vitamix and a rice cooker, which is what most of the questions seem to be aimed toward - kitchen appliances.

I know a vitamix rated at 11.5 amps or whatever will pull over 2kw under load, but if you let it do it indefinitely, it'll stink a little. I still haven't ever noticed any effect on one now that's done it about 1000 times. that's a different thing than here, but the point being, I would imagine that some kitchen devices can pull more than they say.

I noticed some comments on variacs that users were disappointed to find the rated wattage was input and they would blow a fuse in normal tasks.

we'll see what this planer draws in a heavy cut via the kill-a-watt.

it also looks as if the devices are made in japan and sold here. Subjectively, it's the kind of thing nobody really wants to make in the US at this point (same with most of the variacs) as it's sold to consumers and probably not with much margin.

 

[D_W]

NISSYO NDF-1500. google that for one that's rated for 1500w

Also, UMI 1800W voltage converter

The listings aren't clear enough to know if they have some kind of protection that would just shut off with something like the planer, which will presumably draw a whole bunch of current for a short fraction at start up.

 

[John Brown]

The thing that makes modern power electronics the marvel that they are is the concept of switching quickly between full on and full off, never lingering in between. In the ON or OFF states, they are acting as switches not variable resistors and they don't dissipate much power themselves. That's how you can have a tiny variable speed trigger on a 1200Watt SDS drill, a 7kW VFD the size of a big shoebox or control hundreds of horsepower electric motors in your EV.

A solid state relay half the size of a pack of cigarettes will switch 40Amps. That's 10kW at UK mains voltage. It's cheaper to build complex electronics than buy copper for big transformers these days

To be fair, SSRs were around when we were winding autotransformers, as were MOSFETs, I guess the relative cost must have shifted.

 

[D_W]

happy to get advice on which types not to waste my time on. As in, if the type is rated enough but is going to reset or pop a replaceable fuse every time I start the planer, that's no good. A variac is useful for me for guitar amps, but one is enough - so a big one that's no better than the small one wouldn't be a useful addition.

the option to just feed this planer a hot lunch indefinitely and see if it ever matters is always fine given how easy it would be to just get another one, too.

 

[John Brown]

NISSYO NDF-1500. google that for one that's rated for 1500w

Also, UMI 1800W voltage converter

The listings aren't clear enough to know if they have some kind of protection that would just shut off with something like the planer, which will presumably draw a whole bunch of current for a short fraction at start up.

The second one you mention appears to be an old school transformer(toroidal), as far as I can tell.

 

[John Brown]

NISSYO NDF-1500. google that for one that's rated for 1500w

Also, UMI 1800W voltage converter

The listings aren't clear enough to know if they have some kind of protection that would just shut off with something like the planer, which will presumably draw a whole bunch of current for a short fraction at start up.

The first one you mention is deffo an old school transformer, not even toroidal, Es and Is.

 

[D_W]

The second one you mention appears to be an old school transformer(toroidal), as far as I can tell.

so, in your opinion, what happens with them when you put a 12 amp device into the plug and turn it on? Device in this case being maybe slightly less surge than a circular saw as the cutterhead is short radius.

do they tolerate that?

If the proxy shipper can get themselves in gear, I could very well see doing some window shopping over there once in a while, and then having a $125-$150 single use device is justifiable.

Still stunned how the planer's not anything fancy, but it's just really good at what it does, and the adjustment of the front foot is smooth without any slop - very accurate.

 

[John Brown]

so, in your opinion, what happens with them when you put a 12 amp device into the plug and turn it on? Device in this case being maybe slightly less surge than a circular saw as the cutterhead is short radius.

do they tolerate that?

If the proxy shipper can get themselves in gear, I could very well see doing some window shopping over there once in a while, and then having a $125-$150 single use device is justifiable.

Still stunned how the planer's not anything fancy, but it's just really good at what it does, and the adjustment of the front foot is smooth without any slop - very accurate.

I don't actually know for sure, but my guess is that the core would saturate, and limit the surge current. Maybe someone more qualified than me can advise.

 

[D_W]

I don't actually know for sure, but my guess is that the core would saturate, and limit the surge current. Maybe someone more qualified than me can advise.

translation - it starts a little funny or maybe fails to?

Reminds me of a potential use of an old 12V RC starter for nitro engines.

 

[John Brown]

In simple terms, a transformer works by magnetising the core(the iron the wire is wound on). The change in magnetisation(flux) induces a current in the secondary winding. However, you can only magnetize the core so much, at which point it is said to be saturated. So I guess if you looked at the output waveform it would have flat tops and bottoms, instead of a pure sine wave. I'm guessing that this is fairly harmless, as apparently transformers can suffer core saturation briefly at switch on.
But like I said, I'm not an electrical engineer.

 

[D_W]

if the devices are analog, like the one looks to be, this sounds like it's fairly harmless (no blue smoke events) to test.

 

[D_W]

what the hell...I'll get one of the one that looks old school and see.

 

[John Brown]

I can't believe how pricey they are. Supply and demand, I suppose.

 

[D_W]

Yeah, limited demand here. Lots of imported devices with wider range, but reviews suggest that a whole bunch of them are perhaps not very reliably specified, or that their range isn't what they have printed.

This thing is made in japan, it's simple.

I'll report back on whether or not it works. amazon claims Christmas eve delivery, but they haven't hit a guaranteed delivery date often here since covid started. I don't think the guarantee means anything, but I'm also not the type of customer who would try to get a hold of them to complain about it.

It'll open the longer term possibility of using anything that comes from japan and is electric - like a whole gaggle of ryobi tools that aren't at all like our ryobi tools here.

humorously, the first review stated that the $120 device was bought to step down a japanese toaster that was burning toast and now does.

Must be a really good toaster.

 

[raffo]

The NISSYO transformer does not have a grounded power cord. I'd go for the UMI one.

 

[D_W]

The NISSYO transformer does not have a grounded power cord. I'd go for the UMI one.

too late! I already ordered. I can always run a separate ground if needed. this planer has a stub sticking out of the wire to ground it if one chooses, but it's not part of the regular plug.

 

[John Brown]

Since the planer seems to have a two pin plug, I personally wouldn't worry too much.
Just to be clear, you did say earlier in in this thread that you wouldn't be suing anyone?