Hot hide glue, who uses it?

[Ttrees]

Hello folks
I would like to use hot hide glue for a bench build.
I will be laminating this up from reclaimed iroko door stiles, but I want to see how many folks use it first.

It might end up being too late in the year when I finally get around to it, so this might not happen as I don't have a stove in the shed.
I was considering buying a heat gun to warm the lengths, but concerned about warpage.
I'd rather not really.
The reason for wanting hot hide glue is the creep factor in aliphatic resins/PVA's ...
And the fact that I wish to build acoustic guitars in the future.

So for the folks that do
How hot do you guys have your workshop, and how stable do you keep this temperature for, before the thought
of using it,
and do you use it all year round?
Do you dare to use it on large projects?
I take it it's 192 gram strength you use.

I don't mind the smell or the mess, so that's not going to be any worries

It's hard to get any info on this, as it all relates to American forums where hide glue works well in the desert

Thanks
Tom

 

[custard]

If you want to use hide glue then it'll be absolutely fine, but there's no real need for it. Creep is a non issue in a bench build as it's not continually stressed, however if you're still unpersuaded you could always use a UF glue like Cascamite (which dries glass hard with zero creep) and along the way benefit from the much longer open time that UF glue provides. Cascamite needs a minimum temperature of 15 degrees C, maybe a problem in an unheated shed but within reason you can get around that in the way boat builders do, by warming up the glue joint surfaces with a hot air gun just before assembly.

Or you could try Titebond's liquid hide glue and spare yourself most of the faff that comes with hot hide glue. I often use that if I want a reversible joint, it's a good product.

Don't fall down the rabbit hole of fretting about specific formulations of hot hide glue. It's only relevant if you get deep into luthier work or complex furniture restorations, generations of cabinet makers just used whatever happened to be bubbling away in the glue pot and suffered no ill effects.

At the end of the day it's really not a critical decision, pretty much any woodworking adhesive will work just fine on a bench build as the glue surfaces are absolutely massive and no one worries with a bench about unsightly glue lines.

Good luck!

 

[morturn]

I use it, but for no other reason than being a bit traditional. I glued the veneer on the back of a peg head on a guitar I am making yesterday.

I think that there is a lot of over thinking around hide glues, I just use an old cheap as chips electric slow cooker. Mix the glue in a small glass jar and stick it in the slow cooker.

In all honesty, I find that Titebond works fine for me, with all the bits on a guitar, you can glue components together and be ready to carry on working on them in around half an hour or so.

 

[Orraloon]

I have not used hide glue since school woodwork so I'll let you figure how long ago that was. I am however thinking of using it again since I now dabble in musical instruments. The idea came after doing a couple of neck repairs and thinking if this had been made with hide glue then the repair would be so easy. I like the idea of a slow cooker as a glue pot.
As custard said creep is not an issue on a work bench. You would also need quite a large amount of the stuff for a bench too. With other issues like working temperatures and set time you are looking at a lot more work and degree of difficulty. I think hide glue does have a place for some high end projects but being an idle so and so I'll stick with PVA for things like benches. Still some people like a challenge and you can build you'r bench any way you like.
Regards
John

 

[profchris]

I use mainly (but not exclusively) hot hide glue for making musical instruments. A baby bottle warmer and a small plastic pot for the glue (thimble-sized for ukuleles) works fine and takes up little space.

Functionally, the only joint which really needs hot hide glue is the bridge. The string tension tries to pull it towards the neck, and PVA and aliphatics can creep, especially if the instrument is left in a hot place. But even here it's not essential - lots of excellent guitars, ukes etc are made using Titebond Original.

Reasons for using hot hide glue:

1. Joints can easily be re-done if they aren't quite right, with minimal/no cleanup as the fresh glue reactivates the old.

2. Rubbed joints, so no clamping. Some joints are really hard to clamp given the odd shapes.

3. Heat reactivates fresh hide glue so that, for example, I can glue on the back of an instrument and then, a day or so later, deal with any imperfections in the joint by heating that section, applying a little moisture and/or fresh glue and re-clamping. PVA or Titebond gives more initial open time, but once it's gone off that's it.

4. Long-term repairability.

5. Easy cleanup of squeeze-out, though that's a minor consideration.

For a bench I wouldn't even consider hot hide glue though. It would gel before I had half the clamps on, and once it has gelled it needs heat to reactivate. I can heat up a 2mm ukulele back in seconds, but the bits of a bench ...

 

[Keith 66]

I recently started using it as i have gotten into building musical instruments & for this it is excellent.
Cost of a purpose made glue pot is horrendous but a bit of digging reveals the fact that a heated wax warmer pot as used in beauty salons for waxing is actually just the job.
I bought one for the princely sum of £12.99 , it is thermostatically controlled & reaches the required temp with no problems.
At that price if it goes pop i will just buy another one!

 

[custard]

For a bench I wouldn't even consider hot hide glue though. It would gel before I had half the clamps on

Chris, I'm certainly not advocating hot glue for bench making, but if you pre-heat the components you can actually cover quite large surfaces. I've used hot hide glue successfully for hammer veneering internally curved components that won't easily take a caul or go into a vac press, and the total glue surface was probably comparable to that needed to make a bench. And if all else fails previous generations of craftsmen would add salt and urine to hide glue, extending the open time considerably!

 

[AJB Temple]

I use hot hide glue as well. Mainly in instrument applications where I might want to take the joint apart again in the future. I also use Titebond and I like Cascamite. Cascamite is easy to mix up as and when needed. Never really had a problem with any of these.

 

[Mike Jordan]

During my apprenticeship in the sixties I used heaps of hide glue but you have to select the jobs you use it for because it goes off very rapidly so is useless for most laminating jobs. Cascamite is normally ideal for laminating since it has a long open time, and as mentioned, sets like rock. However for use on Iroko it's not the best method because of the oily nature of the material. It's sometimes suggested that it's OK if you wipe down the joint surfaces with a solvent to remove the oil before assembly, carbon tetrachloride, petrol, meths, and cellulose thinners being suggested as suitable.If you survive using these I am still not convinced that they work. Iroko is best glued with two pack resin systems which are rather pricey but really do work, PU adhesive is also suitable and I have used it with success. Both of the glues I regard as suitable tend to slide about under pressure, the resin system give you time to correct the slide but not the PU as a rule.

 

[profchris]

For a bench I wouldn't even consider hot hide glue though. It would gel before I had half the clamps on

Chris, I'm certainly not advocating hot glue for bench making, but if you pre-heat the components you can actually cover quite large surfaces. I've used hot hide glue successfully for hammer veneering internally curved components that won't easily take a caul or go into a vac press, and the total glue surface was probably comparable to that needed to make a bench. And if all else fails previous generations of craftsmen would add salt and urine to hide glue, extending the open time considerably!

Yes, of course! I should have made it clear that my problem would be heating something as big as a bench.

Heat lamps, I guess, for veneering? I get by with a heat gun, which does all the heating I need. And it powers the hot pipe for bending.

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks folks
Really enjoyed this thread, hope it becomes longer.
I do feel a bit more at ease now abut using it if I choose to.

Tom

 

[profchris]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that glass pots are not ideal for heating hide glue. I let my glue cool when done (it sets rubbery) and reheat to use again (not too often, reheating weakens it, and not if it smells off). But when gelled it sticks to glass so well that it can pull chips off.

Plastic is better.

 

[johnnyb]

I've used hide glue a fair bit.
Last time was glue blocks on squeaking stairs. But veneering smallish items is stupid easy with hide glue. I wouldn't glue a bench up or laminate bend with it tbh. Glue blocks are a traditional solution that work really well and if used long grain too long grain really endure. I use liberon pearl glue in a cast iron double boiler. Get a fairly small pot cos it soon goes off! Liquid hide glue soon goes off but is really sticky useful for quick assembly but not hot hide.....stick with the best!