Hole drilling/routing accuracy-MFT table build.

[JJ1]

Hi,

I'm contemplating buying a Festool TS 55 plunge saw in the near future and having watched and read dozens and dozens of articles about the saw and MFT table combination, I'm toying with the idea of making an MFT style top to be clamped on top of a Black and Decker workmate. Very limited space (and budget) means that a Festool MFT3 is out of the question and having to do my woodworking on a balcony means I need the versatility of the B & D workmate at this time.

Anyway, my question relates to the drilling of the 20mm holes for the MFT top. I've watched the excellent Peter Parfitt video on his method for drilling the holes with a 20mm Armeg bit and that's one option I'm considering. But, I'm also considering using a 20mm two-fluted straight router bit instead. The router would ensure a straight, square cut, but would there be any disadvantages to using a router instead of a drill?
I'm assuming a 20mm router bit will route a fairly precise 20mm hole or is it likely to be less precise than what a drill bit can achieve, i.e. is the term called run-out and does that apply to router's as well as drill chucks, or is that a non issue in this instance and either method will be equally good.

I'm thinking one method I could use would be to draw an accurate grid of lines for the MFT top, mark the locations for the holes and either make a transparent router base plate with cross hairs marked on it to line up with the holes or to run the router between a pair of clamped straight edges.

Am I missing anything here and which do you think would be the better method, a drill or a router. Any other tips or advice on how I might go about this procedure would be most welcome.

Thank you,

 

[hansonread]

Router would definitely be my weapon of choice however make sure that the cutter you use is one that can be plunged and not edge fed.

 

[srp]

The important aspect of an MFT is that that the rows are dead square to the columns. The rails can then be used with dogs to make perfect cross cuts. That means getting one made by someone with a cnc, using an existing Festool one as a pattern (along with a bearing guided cutter), using an LR 32 setup to get the 96 mm spacing, or making up some sort of spacing jig to cut the repeated pattern. There are loads of methods outlined on the festoolownersgroup.com forum. To be honest, just using a hand held drill is not going to be accurate enough to enable you to be certain that you can make dead square cross cuts at any position on the table.
I went for the cnc option for my cheapskate version, and it is perfect. I can also use it as a template to make my own, which should retain the accuracy of the first one. You might want to start by buying a couple of dogs first, so you get an idea of what diameter hole you need. Again there is more on this on the festoolownersgroup forum, along with suggestions for router and drill bits, all of which vary in size a little bit. Also the type of mdf makes a difference. Cheap stuff from B and Q is too fluffy to cut a decent hole in. Moisture resistant is usually better quality.

 

[rdesign]

qwas dogs along with the rail ones! r needed. they r awesome.

i would highly recommend getting a company or a college with a cnc to cut a sheet of mdf for u.

you will be super happy with the quality and the increased repudiative speed this system will enable you to do

good look and a sip would be great.

 

[Mr T]

If you are unable to go down the CNC route I would suggest using a 25mm guide collar on the router with a 20mm plunge cutting bit. The collar would fit into a 25mm hole drilled in an mdf template, cross hairs marked on the template would aid location or you could use the sides of the template for spacing if you cut it to the appropriate size.

Chris

 

[gidon]

Hi JJ1

I have tried a few methods. On the off chance you have an Incra fence - I made this one and made perfectly aligned holes with a router which I described here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-j ... -mft-holes

If you're only going to use if for clamping etc and not for square alignment then accuracy doesn't matter and I also have one just drilled with a 20mm Forstner bit that I attach to the top of my router table (held up with 2x4s) - use it all the time!

By the way - I got that bit Peter Parfitt uses in his video - but I find the holes too big - my dogs are loose. Even used in a drill press so think he got may have been lucky with the bit he got - I tried another brand and also found the holes too big. Don't think those bits are meant for accuracy in my opinion.

I also bought a cheapish MFT 800 top and planned to build an MFT around this but then temptation got the better of me and bought an MFT!! Still have the MFT 800 boxed and will use for another table. Got it here: http://www.powertool-supplies.co.uk/fes ... p-800.html (£30). You could also use this as a template for a bigger table if you wanted with a template route cutter,

You will need some clamps that make the hole arrangement so useful: http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-scre ... 120-pack-2

Gidon

 

[Grahamshed]

You say you are on a budget. By the time you have brought the MR MDF, a 20 mm router bit, and the other odds and ends you will need to achieve this you may as well buy a spare MFT top for ( I think ) about £75 and clamp or dog that to the top of your workmate. The positioning of the holes is so critical that I would lack confidence any DIY system done on a budget.

 

[petermillard]

I also bought a cheapish MFT 800 top and planned to build an MFT around this but then temptation got the better of me and bought an MFT!! Still have the MFT 800 boxed and will use for another table. Got it here: http://www.powertool-supplies.co.uk/fes ... p-800.html (£30). You could also use this as a template for a bigger table if you wanted with a template route cutter...

Thanks for posting the link - just picked up a spare / template for my mobile bench that needs replacing! And yes, +1 to just buying a replacement top instead of making your own from scratch - cheaper, easier, and likely more accurate than anything you can make on your own without e.g. a full LR32 system and rails.

 

[gidon]

Glad useful Peter. Think they quoted 5 days ordered direct from Festool but arrived quicker IIRC.

Very handy these online Festool suppliers - even if not in stock only a few days for every spare part Festool have!

Cheers

Gidon

 

[JJ1]

Thank you all very much indeed for your advice and suggestions, it's been a big help.

Having re-read all the replies several times and given the idea some more thought, I've decided that just buying an MFT top is most definitely going to be the best way to go. I hadn't actually realized that the tops were available separately and seeing that there are four different sizes available is very useful and gives lots of options. I was definitely concerned with my ability (or rather lack of) to get the holes perfectly spaced and although I intend to use it as a top for holding material whilst, routing, sanding, glueing, etc. etc I primarily want it for accurately ripping and cross-cutting.

I haven't decided on which size to go for yet. I'm erring on the side of, bigger is better at the moment, because I can make a bigger top smaller, if need be, much easier than making a small top bigger and as long as my working space and budget can accommodate it then I'm sure I will benefit from the extra working space in the long run.

One thing I'm not quite sure about is whether the different MFT top thickness's will be an issue with the clamping components I'm thinking of getting. It appears that the various MFT tops have various thickness's of 0.8", 1.2" and 1.5." The one I'm thinking about getting is 1.2" thick. Does anyone know if the following clamps are likely to work ok on that top Festool Screw Clamp? I'm not sure whether they'll physically go through a 1.2" top. If anyone has the 1.2" MFT 1080 top. Do they fit ok?
I'm also thinking of getting; THESE, THESE, and possibly THESE. Any idea if they will all work ok in the thicker tops?


A couple of further questions if I may and probably the most important ones. I've watched Peter Parfitts You Tube video on the use of the Parf dogs and how quick and straight forward it is to get consistent and accurate 90 and 45 degree cuts. Is it really as easy and as accurate as that, even for a novice such as myself? One of the main reasons I'm considering this set up is for the ability to accurately crosscut at 90 degrees. Surely this method makes the use of the hinged rail and accessories that would normally come with the MFT3 table redundant, or am I missing something?

One other concern is how well the MFT top will cope with weather conditions as it will only ever be used outside on a balcony. I'll obviously keep it covered with a tarpaulin if rain is expected but I'm wondering if the changes in temperature and sunshine (here's hoping) will wreck it. Would you treat it with something or just leave it as it is but keep it covered when wet, or the other option would be to remove it and store it indoors.

 

[petermillard]

It appears that the various MFT tops have various thickness's of 0.8", 1.2" and 1.5." The one I'm thinking about getting is 1.2" thick...

Pretty sure the MFT tops are all ~18mm thick; perhaps you're getting mislead by the thickness of the aluminium profiles on the various MFTs that Festool have made??

I have a standard, original MFT 1080 - I'll check the thickness when I'm back in the workshop tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure it's 18mm. Certainly the dogs and clamps you link to work well with the original MFT 1080 - that's what they were designed for.

The benefit of using the full hinged guide-rail on the MFT vs bench dogs (Parfitt or otherwise) is that you get to use the full depth (front-to-back) of the MFT worktop - if you're using dogs to locate the guide-rail, then obviously your depth of cut is restricted.

As for weather-proofing an MFT top - it's a high density fibreboard, but fibreboard all the same; better to keep it indoors, if possible, though some people have sealed theirs with varnish or lacquer - maybe even wood hardener if you're determined to leave it outside??

HTH Pete

 

[JJ1]

Thanks Pete. If you could check the thickness of your top whenever you get the chance that would be much appreciated. The reason I'm assuming they're all different thickness's is because Amazon.com lists the replaceable tops as MFT3 as 0.8" thick, the MFT 1080 as 1.2" thick, the MFT Kapex as 1.5" and the MFT 800 as 1.5".

When I researched prices the MFT3 top which measures 1102mm x 718mm was over double the price of the MFT 1080 which is actually larger, measuring 1165mm x 725mm. When I enquired about the price difference I was told it could be due to different thickness's. So, I was expecting the MFT3 to be the thicker of the two given the extra cost, but surprisingly it's actually the older 1080 that's the thicker of the two.

The reason I wasn't sure if the Festool screw clamps would work on the 1080 top was because I'm sure I read somewhere on the F.O.G. forum that they will only go through the thinner tops, due to the actual tops thickness, not the hole size, which I understand are universal on all the MFT's at 20mm diameter.

The benefit of using the full hinged guide-rail on the MFT vs bench dogs (Parfitt or otherwise) is that you get to use the full depth (front-to-back) of the MFT worktop - if you're using dogs to locate the guide-rail, then obviously your depth of cut is restricted.

I see. Got it

 

[Grahamshed]

The MFT and all its components are horrendously expensive for what they are but it is such a brilliantly simple system when done properly that it is (almost) worth it.

 

[petermillard]

Just checked my MFT and it's definitely 18mm - maybe a hair over, 18.4 or around there, but nowhere near 1.2". Every MFT I've seen has been the same, so I'd respectfully suggest that Amazon.com has it wrong. If you do a more general google search there are plenty of other sources that state the top thickness as 19mm/0.8".

Just FYI I have all the clamps that you link to above, as well as a set of the screw clamps, and they work fine on my MFT, though they would be a fight if the top were thicker.

When I researched prices the MFT3 top which measures 1102mm x 718mm was over double the price of the MFT 1080 which is actually larger, measuring 1165mm x 725mm. When I enquired about the price difference I was told it could be due to different thickness's.

just out of interest was it Festool/TTS who told you that, or a dealer? I was surprised at the price difference too - makes the 1080 replacement top seem like a bargain

HTH Pete

 

[JJ1]

Hi Pete,

Thank you for checking the thickness for me.

You are quite right about Amazon getting the information wrong. It appears that all tops are exactly the same thickness. The only differences that I've uncovered is, apparently some of the older tops, pre-2006 may have had 19mm holes instead of the more usual, and current, 20mm holes. I think it was on the F.O.G. forum that I read that but I don't know for certain how accurate that information is.

It was a dealer who mentioned that the price difference may have been due to thickness. He was only guessing though. They had the MFT3 top at £124 and the MFT1080 top at just over £60. It may be a price mistake though because further searching reveals that the MFT3 top can be bought for approx. £78.

I've just this minute bought the 1080 top, so looking forward to receiving it on Thursday and the TS55 is being picked up this weekend Parf dogs seem a bit thin on the ground, but they've been ordered too.

 

[petermillard]

I've just this minute bought the 1080 top, so looking forward to receiving it on Thursday and the TS55 is being picked up this weekend

Woo hoo Let us know how it goes.

 

[JJ1]

Will do