Handsawing joints

[János]

Hello,

Using a cutting tool, like a knife or scratch awl for marking out predates the use of pencil, simply, because the pencil is a relatively recent development, it was born in the XVIIth century. :wink: Cut or scratched lines are more accurate than pencilled ones, but hard to remove. Dear Rob, my grandfather was a cabinetmaker, who learned the craft in the 1930s, in a traditional apprentice system. They used standard 2H pencils for marking out, and never used marking knives. And dovetails were (mostly) made freehand, by eye, without any marking out, except for the shoulder line, which was squared around in pencil, or drawn with a marking gauge.

Bye,

János

 

[barkwindjammer]

Whats all this shouting ?

 

[studders]

Ten past Three.

 

[xy mosian]

Knife or pencil, if you can see it take your pick. You could even run a pencil along a knife cut.
I've just been reminded about a problem new sawers sometimes have. I watched my good lady cutting an un-cut loaf. She was trying toe see both sides of the cut at once. Basically she was cutting on a mid line through her body, her elbow as wagging about trying not to run into her side. It is important to stand sufficiently to one side to allow your saw driving hand, elbow, the lot to freely move backwards and forwards without hinderance. You only need to see one side of the saw blade t'other will follow.

xy

 

[Treechopper]

:shock: And I was thinking i'd get one or two posts. Clearly the subject of technique is enough to start a brawl. Thanks to all for your posts any further tips would be gladly recieved i'll let you know which one of you was right when I manage to knock something together.

I won't say who's i prefer the sound of just yet :wink:

TC

 

[AndyT]

Besides all this controversial marking out stuff, another factor that might be making your sawing less accurate is the working height.

If your bench is too high, you'll find it hard to saw straight. Look at the positions of your shoulder and elbow - they need to be close to where they normally are, so your whole sawing arm can swing comfortably from the shoulder, not hunched up.

If you think the work might be too high up, there's no need to start hacking bits off the legs of your bench - just put something on the floor, such as a couple of planks or an offcut of kitchen worktop, to raise the floor and reduce the effective height of the bench. That way it's easy to experiment.

 

[barkwindjammer]

http://www.logancabinetshoppe.com/1/pos ... awing.html

 

[Jacob]

.... my grandfather was a cabinetmaker, who learned the craft in the 1930s, in a traditional apprentice system. They used standard 2H pencils for marking out, and never used marking knives. And dovetails were (mostly) made freehand, by eye, without any marking out, except for the shoulder line, which was squared around in pencil, or drawn with a marking gauge.

Bye,

János

That's the way!
Except DT shoulder line both drawn and scored, as you need a straight scored line on the shoulders as chiseling between the pins and into the pinholes is very difficult to do neatly so that they are all in line. In better class work I guess the marks would be planed off, which unfortunately removes the evidence.
I also have my own theory that knife marks would be taken from a rod on one face, by a senior operative, to be followed around the other 3 sides in pencil by a junior, the knife marks being indelible. I've seen this on several pieces and that is my only explanation.

enough to start a brawl

It's only our Rob, he is noted for irritability!

 

[Treechopper]

Well i've had play in the shed ripping some pine this evening and i have worked out:

None of you are right :wink:

Well you all are at the moment.

My vice is too high so i was crunched up.
The logan vid shows that a saw will jump into a scribed line if offset by a fraction to the waste side.
And dare i say it i can see pencil better for the rip line.
I have bought a right handed marking knife when i'm left handed, (sky hooks anyone?) #-o
I havn't tried joints yet but i think i will buy a left handed or chisel point knife, score the end grain with the bevel on the waste side and follow down the rip line. I'll highlight the rip line with a sharp pencil and practice practice practice. Thanks again. Really helped so far to look at it from different angles. =D>

 

[Harbo]

You can convert your existing knife into a double handed one by grinding off the point - don't over cook it though.

Rod

 

[Alf]

Also depends which side you think a marking knife should be bevelled.

...practice practice practice.

Yeah, that's the really important (and boring) one. You could use a butter knife - with the butter still on it - but as long as you're familiar with where you have to cut in order to get the desired end result that's all that really matters (probably just "kissing" the butter line, but that's purely a guess; I haven't tried. )