Hand planing advice....

[Wouldchuk]

Hand planing - portrayed as one of the more satisfying aspects of woodworking. Not so in my case... I find the whole process incredibly frustrating. I have to be careful to fight the desire to go and hurl my No.7 and bench plane out the window....

I'm hopeless with handtools and am trying to teach myself, but just cannot seem to get it. What am I doing wrong??

With the Record No.7, with a brand new blade and a brand new two-piece Clifton chip-breaker. Its honed to 25degrees.

I start out with no blade protrusion, then gradually turn the knob until I can get a bit of cut. I am trying to advance it in tiny movements so that I can get to a point where I can then set the lateral adjustment - but I dont really get to that point.

With a few juddering, jerking, mis-aligned strokes, the throat is gummed up and it stops cutting. Then I have to take out the blade/chip-breaker to clear the throat. A fine collection of shavings will be jammed up under the chipbreaker between the blade too, so I have to take that apart and clear it.

This is the same on the bench plane too.

I've tried to move the frog back, essentially meaning the blade exits the sole through the throat slot right at the very back, leaving more room, but that didn't seem to make and difference - if i move the frog back any more, the iron/chipbreaer isnt supported by the frog anymore, just the casting on the sole near the throat.

The results on the bench plane are pretty much identical.

I don't think its as simple as honing the blade, or lapping the base etc. This is down to a combination of poor set up on the plane as I don't really know what I am doing coupled with zero technique! A marriage made in heaven!

Any tips?

 

[MIGNAL]

You shouldn't get any shavings under the chipbreaker. That could be the source of the problem. Once that clogs the Plane will become unusable. Probably not seated on the blade (i.e. a gap between blade and chipbreaker). Try backing off the chipbreaker a bit, move it back further away from the edge of the blade, say 2 mm's from the tip. That's a starting point.
Is the blade very sharp before you put it in the Plane?
Probably the easiest way to learn is to go see someone who has a decent amount of experience with hand planes.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Oh, not much fun!

There could be several causes, so it may come down to a careful and patient elimination of possible problems one at a time. It may take a bit of persistence, but we'll get you there!

Firstly, the blade and chip-breaker. I'm sure you've done this anyway, but just in case, here's the usual advice for setting them up. The blade needs to be honed on the flat side to the same degree that you've honed the bevel. New irons straight from the factory sometimes have grinder marks on them, and these need polishing off; you only need to do this once, and it only needs to be polished right by the cutting edge, though it's easier to do an inch or so holding the blade flat to the sharpening stone. You can, with plane blades, lay a ruler along one side of the stone, place the plane iron across it so that the edge is on the other side of the stone, and thus reduce the work you have to do - that's 'the ruler trick'. (Don't try it with chisels!) Now put the chip-breaker in place, and secure it. Check carefully that it contacts the blade only at it's tip, and right across - if you see any gaps, however tiny, file or stone the chip-breaker until it fits the blade exactly. Any gaps will act as shaving traps, and clog the plane almost instantly.

That done, see that the frog is straight across the plane, and it's fixing screws snugged down firmly. Install the blade and chip-breaker, then the lever-cap. (I like to hold the plane at 45 degrees to the bench so that the blade is horizontal for this bit - just stops things falling off.)

Now turn the plane upside down, with the heel on the bench, and sight down the sole. You'll see the mouth as a black line. Adjust the cutter depth in or out until you just see the cutting edge as a very thin black line (sighting against a light-coloured surface or a sheet of white paper makes this easier). You'll then see which way the lateral adjustment needs shifting to even up the line across the plane's sole. Try to make the last adjustment an outward one on the depth adjuster, to take up all the backlash.

Now give the plane a try-out on some mild timber. You'll probably need to fine tune your depth adjustment in or out to get a comfortable cut - getting it spot on by eye alone will come with practice.

Try that for starters.

 

[Soylent1]

I am by no means an expert on hand planes, but I have restored a few back to working condition recently and I even actually use them sometimes!

I had a similar problem where I kept getting shavings stuck between the chipbreaker and after much faffing about I realised that when the breaker was sat on the blade without the attaching screw in it was perfectly flat with no gap whatsoever. But when I put the screw in and tightened it bent the breaker slightly and this raised the front edge a tiny bit where it was previously sat nice and flush on the blade. I managed to remedy this by putting a very small angle in the underside of the chipbreaker (where it sits on the blade) so that when it was under tension from the screw it still sat flat. I'm rubbish at explaining things! Anyway I hope you get your problem sorted as I know how annoying these can be.

Tony

 

[MIGNAL]

Don't touch the chipbreaker. It's a clifton 2 piece, If there is anything wrong with it send it back. Do not go grinding or sanding it.

 

[Wouldchuk]

Righty - I shall try to sort the relationship between the chip=breaker and the blade as a start - I've a 1000/6000 combination stone. I'm not sure what the benefit of the twopiece Clifton chipbreaker vs the bog-stanard single piece? I've the former on the No7 and the standard on the bench plane. The results with both are terrible!

By now, in my attempts to find a successful setup, I've moved everything around....

Should the angle of the frog bed run smoothly into the angle of the mouth?

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/tes ... _935.shtml

I found this article, with quite a good diagram - however, in Fig.1, it shows the angled frog being set a PROTRUDING BEYOND the angle of the mouth - I'd assumed that that should be one contunous angle - providing support all the way....

 

[Wouldchuk]

Mignal - sorry, we posted at the same time...

I bought the Clifton a while ago, along with a new blade, to try and put myself in the best position as I was struggling so much and had read that the two-piece would make a difference....

I shall focus on polishing the back of the blade to ensure a good meet. However, I don't really see why it is better.... if anything, two pieces seems to provide more oppoortunity for movement and problems?

 

[DannyEssex]

The blade needs to be honed on the flat side to the same degree that you've honed the bevel.

Sorry for this dumb question but does this mean there should be a bevel on both sides of the blade? I was under the impression that the flat side needs to be perfectly flat and only the bevel side honed??

 

[carlb40]

The blade needs to be honed on the flat side to the same degree that you've honed the bevel.

Sorry for this dumb question but does this mean there should be a bevel on both sides of the blade? I was under the impression that the flat side needs to be perfectly flat and only the bevel side honed??

You can add a very slight bevel to the rear of the blade. That will give you an increased angle of attack. Which would be useful for timbers with wild / reversing grains.

However i think what is meant here is if you have honed the bevel to 8000 grit, hone the flat side the same 8000 grit?

 

[SteveF]

i assume degree was meant as quality and not an angle

Steve

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The blade needs to be honed on the flat side to the same degree that you've honed the bevel.

Sorry for this dumb question but does this mean there should be a bevel on both sides of the blade? I was under the impression that the flat side needs to be perfectly flat and only the bevel side honed??

Danny - I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, and my words caused confusion. SteveF is quite right - by 'degree' I meant quality of surface, not angle. You are quite right that the flat side of a chisel or plane iron should remain flat. The quality of the edge is determined by the quality of the two surfaces where they meet right at the edge; if one, the bevel, is nicely honed and polished, but the other flat side still has the manufacturer's grinding marks on it, the quality of the edge will be dictated by the grinding marks. Hence the need to polish them out right by the edge, which will then be defined by two honed and polished surfaces meeting.

 

[Jacob]

No 7 can seem big and clumsy. You might get on better with a 4.
4, 7, whatever, start off by planing just the thin edge of a board say 10mm thick. Get that going well, watch the shavings coming through the mouth and work out why it is/isn't working. Then move on to thicker boards and to flats wider then the plane. Practice practice!! Don't practice doing it wrongly but do it differently instead.
Waste a lot of wood.

PS
A fine collection of shavings will be jammed up under the chipbreaker between the blade too, most likely means your lever cap screw is not tight enough. When you lift the lever it should require a good bit of force
Should the angle of the frog bed run smoothly into the angle of the mouth?
Yes. Sight it both ways to make sure the blade is tight against the back if the mouth.
Hone to 25º is a bit too fine. 30º to 35º would be much better

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks guys

it was the word 'degree' that threw me. After I posted it sort of clicked :lol:

 

[Sheffield Tony]

A couple of basic thoughts - you say a new iron, the Cliffie ones are quite thick and may need the mouth filing wider in an older plane desiged for a 1/16" thick iron. Secondly, and I hope you won't be offended by this question, but you do have the iron in the right way up ? I.e bevel down.

 

[Jacob]

What was wrong with the old iron? Maybe put it back and have a go with it.
Personally I see no point in new irons until the old one is worn out, which can take a lifetime!

 

[Wouldchuk]

Thanks all, some good advice here to try.

I will polish out the back of the iron, and perhaps re-hone the blade to 30degrees while I'm at it. Hopefully the chipbreaker will be okay, but if not, then I;ll take a look at that too.

The blade in the No7 is a newly-bought Stanley blade, with a CLifton chipbreaker - so the thickness isn't the problem - and I've definitely got it the right way - i've asked myself that questions enough times now!

Because I had been having to take it apart every two minutes, I expect that the lever-cap screw isn't tight enough - I had loosened it off to try to make it easier for the blade to move up and down...

Having had some deep breaths, I will have another play tonight.

 

[bugbear]

What is your "bench plane"? I think it may be significant that you're getting the same difficulty on two planes.

What's the workpiece - a wide thin board? A 2x4? What timber is it?

How are you holding the workpiece - do you have a flat, sturdy bench or a workmate?

BugBear

 

[MMUK]

If you're struggling to set the planes up and can drop them to Birmingham I don't mind fettling them for you, should only take an hour or so as long as the soles are flat.

 

[Corneel]

Here is a picture that could be helpfull. I think this is wrong with your chipbreaker, gaps between the balde and the chipbreaker. When you press them lightly together with your fingers, hold it up to the light and peek in between them, then you shouldn't see light where the chipbreaker meets the cutting blade.



If it a new one, I would send it back. Other wise, this is how you can repair it on some sandpaper or on an oilstone. When the heel of the chipbreaker is lower, you create the neccessary relief angle under the edge.



One other thing, are yo sure your edge is really sharp? That's often a problem with novice handplane users.

 

[matthewwh]

Wouldchuck,

I notice your location is Oxon / Northants. If you want to pop in for a brew and bring your plane I'd be happy to have a look at it for you (we are on the A442 near Wroxton).

I'm away this week but anytime after that, just give me a call.